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Would you buy a Mondial that has a 348 engine swap?

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by dogdoc97, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. dogdoc97

    dogdoc97 Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2011
    711
    Atlanta, GA
    saw an ad tonite on ebay; says the Mondial motor was changed out for a 348 motor with half the miles of the original engine; with that said we know the originality is gone, would you still buy the car? I think not with so many other original examples out there but just wanted an opinion, thnx folks! Doc
     
  2. hank sound

    hank sound F1 Veteran

    Jan 31, 2004
    5,786
    Burbank, CA
    Full Name:
    Hank Garfield
    It's a Mondial t, and they came with the same engine as a 348. I'm quite certain that If you threw a timing belt and totally destroyed your original motor, this is what you would do.

    Cheers, Hank
     
  3. dogdoc97

    dogdoc97 Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2011
    711
    Atlanta, GA
    I was just wondering if you had a choice between buying a car with a swap and buying one ALL original, not that you destroyed your motor which would you buy or would you buy the swap and not worry about the originality; obviously if you are going to keep the car forever who cares, Doc
     
  4. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 18, 2007
    2,372
    Northern VA
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    Dave W
    Here is the listing

    Ferrari : Mondial Convertible in Ferrari | eBay Motors

    As far as I know the car would still qualify as original, just not "Numbers Matching," and the Mondial is not yet to a point where that matters much. Looking at the engine photo, they forgot to put the intake tube from the left side vent to the airbox, otherwise it looks just like ours. Pretty car. I'd buy it if it checked out ok. I wonder where the reserve is?

    Dave
     
  5. peterdavid911

    peterdavid911 Formula 3

    Apr 9, 2012
    1,329
    London, UK
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    Peter
    Interesting question. In my opinion I would not touch it because the car will no longer have matching chassis and engine numbers as it left the factory. This may not be a big deal with other older car brands but something like a Ferrari is very important. It would have to be very cheap otherwise.
    One thing I learned through the inspiration when I bought mine was watching shows like Chasing Classic Cars with Wayne Carini and seeing how important matching numbers are when buying and selling.
    Not sure how it works in the US but here in the UK the chassis and engine numbers are on the vehicle documents of every car and will be flagged up if there has been a change. If you do not check and it has been changed without being recorded then it's bad luck for you. There is no law against it obviously.

    Hope that helps.
     
  6. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 15, 2006
    6,705
    Sonoma, CA
    Spot on

    However, it would be an interesting bargain in the $15-25k range.

    Matching numbers/originality is not much over the above, so ... whatever... it will only sell to someone who wants 'all that' at a bargain to drive the **** out of it.

    like said, bargain if low enough.
     
  7. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 18, 2007
    2,372
    Northern VA
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    Dave W
    How do I know our engine is original? I've never checked it. I guess if I find out the numbers don't match I'll just have to stop waxing it and beat the hell out of it. Ugly stepchild of a Ferrari! ;)

    I say that car is worth every bit of 35k if it was done right.

    Dave
     
  8. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    30,315
    East Central, FL
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    Wade O.
    In the long run I suspect that matching numbers would matter for the U.S. t Coupe. Otherwise... not as much.
     
  9. TheMac

    TheMac Formula Junior

    Sep 5, 2009
    451
    Alberta
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    Jon Mac
    Many different ways of saying the same thing: It depends what you want it for. If collectibility is what you want in your Mondial, then I suppose you better ensure that your numbers match. If you just want a properly maintained driver, then an engine swap shouldn't really deter you, particularly if it knocks the market value of the car down a bit and leaves you some duckets in your pockets.
     
  10. peterdavid911

    peterdavid911 Formula 3

    Apr 9, 2012
    1,329
    London, UK
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    Peter
    The engine number should be on the original sticker found on the 2nd page of your guarantee/warranty booklet when you first open it. This same sticker has the chassis number too. Therefore these are the numbers that should match on your car. Chassis number is easy to find in several areas but the engine number is hard to spot and will need good lighting or a torch. It is on a plaque below the intake plenum on the right side of the engine between the two banks of cylinders. There is a diagram of the position in the owners handbook. I could never see it until I took it to Ferrari themselves after I bought the car. The independent so called specialist was useless when I serviced it and couldn't find it. I was worried it may have even been removed.

    I must admit I bought it without knowing even though it really worried me. Thankfully it's all spot on.

    It will either bother you or not but to me it's important and would rather pay the extra for matching numbers and have peace of mind and no complications if and when I sell it on.
     
  11. 2000YELLOW360

    2000YELLOW360 F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Jun 5, 2001
    19,734
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    Art
    If the Mondials were collector cars, staying away might make sense. Isn't the case though. Low time engine, drive it, and drive it.

    Aer
     
  12. dailyferraridriver

    dailyferraridriver Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 12, 2010
    1,382
    New Jersey
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    Erik
    Amen.

    I couldn't care if the engine isn't original as long as they didn't drop a Honda motor in there.

    Erik
     
  13. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    Mar 18, 2007
    2,372
    Northern VA
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    Dave W
    After 20 years, quite a few OEM parts on our car weren't on it 20 years ago, but the car is still "Original." However, if there is a serial number plate on a part, that has to stay for numbers matching. You could replace every other part and the car would still be original. Just don't F with a number plate.

    Crazy, but it is important to many and I can't discount that.

    Dave
     
  14. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2002
    5,920
    Stepford, Connecticut
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    dave m
    The biggest issue beyond non matching numbers is verifying the actual miles/condition on the new engine. Takes more than receipts to prove.

    Where did that engine come from? Hopefully not a flood car.
     

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