Wire-wound fuel hose | FerrariChat

Wire-wound fuel hose

Discussion in 'Rocky Mountain' started by jmn, Apr 12, 2005.

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  1. jmn

    jmn Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2005
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    jmn
    #1 jmn, Apr 12, 2005
    Does anybody out there know where in the Denver area I can get the steel ferrules swaged on to the 60's style fuel hose? I have new hose and ferrules, but the only other wire-wound fuel hose I've dealt with used soft aluminum ferrules- this looks like something that needs to be done by a hydraulic hose shop, but I'd prefer not to take it to someone that has not done it before. I had no problem sourcing the hose, but it's not cheap and I'd hate to screw it up. My original hoses work fine and don't leak, but they are starting to look pretty ratty, so I'd like to replace them.
    As long as I'm asking, has anyone been able to source the 50's style wire-wound hose? It is the same 8mm ID, but smaller in OD by at least a couple mm relative to the later stuff. As noted above, it uses aluminum ferrules, not the later steel ones. Matt at ReOriginals used to have it, but last time I asked, he was out of it.
    Thanks in advance for any help provided.

    Jon Nelson
     
  2. RED GTS

    RED GTS Formula Junior

    Jun 14, 2004
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    Gungnir
    #2 RED GTS, Apr 12, 2005
    Try Dennison International they make up themselves for the restorations they do. They also gave me good advise on how to keep them from leaking, they are located in Auburn washington
     
  3. jmn

    jmn Formula Junior

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    #3 jmn, Apr 13, 2005
    Thanks, Ken. I was hoping to find someone local, but perhaps your suggestion is my only option, as more answers don't appear to be forthcoming. I've heard of those guys, I think they are actually in Puyallup. I grew up only a few miles away, so I know the area. I'll give them a call if I don't get any answers in a couple days and send them the parts. Something tells me that if my question were about where to get a color-matching Ferrari t-shirt (or a doily, for that matter) I might get more responses- not many old cars left around here. Thanks again.
     
  4. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    #4 davehelms, Apr 14, 2005
    No clue on the Doily but......
    It has been a frustration for 25 years now that the correct OD fuel hose has not been available. Believe it or not, the oversized hose will fit in the steel ferrals with great effort. The makers went two for two as the fit of the brown oil hose is the same as the fuel hose.
    Twisting the hose into the ferrel doesnt work as the internal hose winding is opisite direction as the external windings if I remember correctly.
    It is not clear to me if you have the steel ferrels or aluminum ones. Either way the fitment is tough at best. I just finished doing 2 of the oil lines and am waiting for my fingers to heal before I start on the fuel lines.
    I always order 2"'s extra for each line so I have the option to start over again a few times on each hose if needed. When final assembling use locktite flange sealant paste spread on the steel fitting before screwing together. It remains flexable and will keep the line leak proof years later when it starts to shrink a bit. I have used it to reseal old fuel and oil lines on the Colorado Grand back roads, with complete sucess. Hylamar, silicone and all others have failed to do the same.
    Somewhere on the back of one of my shelves I have a die that I made many years ago to fab the ferrels. There was a time when they could not be found and I had to fab them out of 4130 thin wall and form the rounded cap on the end with the die, and then nickle plate. It would supprise me if someone has not had them refabed by now. I will be needing a few to refit the correct fuel line to a car that had Aeroquip line installed in the past.
    Dave
     
  5. jmn

    jmn Formula Junior

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    #5 jmn, Apr 14, 2005
    Thanks for the information, Dave. I have some of the smaller diameter aluminum ferrules as well as larger diameter steel ferrules that match the diameter of the new hose I have. My understanding (which may be wrong!) is that the larger diameter stuff is for later cars. It appears to match the original hose on my 365gt 2+2 exactly. The new streel ferrules I have are slightly longer than the original ones, but they slide on to the hose just fine (snug, but not difficult to put on). My impression (which may again be wrong) was that, like the older smaller wire-wound hose that uses aluminum ferrules, the ferrules needed to be swaged in place on the hose to complete the assembly. The thing I don't quite understand is that the ORIGINAL ferrules on my car do seem to be sqeezed on, but there are no die marks (either circumferentially or along the ferrule) to show how the swaging was done. It sounds like you might be saying to just push everything together without any deformation of the ferrule (sleeve). Is that correct? ON the older ones that I have, which belong to a few sets of old DCO3 carbs I've got, the ferrule is aluminum and has obviously been squeezed, so much so that disassembly requires careful use of a dremel with a cutoff wheel. Thanks for the tip on the 518, but can you clarify if you do or do not swage the ferrule on to the hose and if so, how, or who or whatever? Sorry to be a windbag, but I am anxious to do this correctly, as over the years I developed a slight distate for hot fuel spraying all over engine compartments. If it helps, I got the hose and steel ferrules from the Partsource guy in Maine. Thanks again for the help.

    Jon
     
  6. RED GTS

    RED GTS Formula Junior

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    #6 RED GTS, Apr 14, 2005
    My 275 and 330 did not have the alum. ferrels but the old ones would not fit the slightly larger hose that is supplied now. The ferrels that Dennison supplies is concours correct if that matters. Here is the # 253-435-9143 Butch Dennison. Yes it is Puyallup not auburn.
     
  7. jmn

    jmn Formula Junior

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    #7 jmn, Apr 14, 2005
    That agrees with my experience. I've only seen the aluminum ferrules on 50's cars, namely D-types, Ferraris, Maseratis and Alfas (750 series Veloces with DCO3 carbs). I'm not certain on 250s, but all the 275 and 330s I've seen use the same stuff that is on my 365. The new steel ferrules I received with my hose are indeed slightly larger that the originals, although not by much, and both the original and new steel ferrules are MUCH larger (like a couple mms) than the older aluminum ones. I guess what I am learning from all this is that there are in fact three wire-wound hose diameters, one very small (about 12mm OD) for really old cars that uses the aluminum ferrules, the original hose for use with original steel ferrules, and a third hose that is very slightly larger than the original hose, but that is a pain to use with original ferrules, although larger ones are available that are very similar. Whew! Now if I only new where to get it swaged locally, or if it needs to be swaged. If I don't hear more, I'll send it off to Puyallup next week. I've rebuilt entire motors with less time and effort than this fuel hose is taking!
     
  8. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    #8 davehelms, Apr 14, 2005
    We are talking about two different aluminum ferrels. I know the ones you speak about that were used on many of the old English and Italian race cars with the DCO3, sand cast Webers. I have never seen these swaged ferrels used on the Ferrari's. There was a batch of the aluminum ferrels made in the early 80's that duplicated the std. steel ferrels used on the Ferrari's with the fabric hose. They did not hold up well and fell out of favor quickly.
    Believe it or not, that "slightly oversized" hose fits in the vintage steel ferrels with a great amount of effort. I figured that someone had to have reproduced a ferrel to fit the new line by now. Having never used them I cant give any feedback on how they fit, maybe Ken can. I do know when fitting the new hose in the vintage steel ferrels, it must be done in a two step process. Fit the steel ferrel (with great effort) over the hose first. The end fitting must be lubed and screwed into the hose until it is very snug and left to sit overnight. The next day the hose has taken a bit of a set and the end fitting can be turned in the rest of the way until seated. Once assembled let it sit for a few hours for the hose to take a new set, dissamble, wash with brake clean, apply 518 and reassemble. All this while wondering how you were able to fit 5#'s of S--t in a 3# bag. If the new ferrels are sized about .060" OS on the ID, that is the direction I would go. Good suggestion Ken, once I get a list of the missing fuel line fittings on the PF Cab. I will be calling them. Fabing them out of thin wall aircraft tubing was no cake walk!
    Dave
     
  9. Four7EightBHP

    Four7EightBHP Formula Junior
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    #9 Four7EightBHP, Apr 15, 2005
    If you've ever tried to work on a classic car, you can really appreciate this thread and the direction it gives. Just one more of many reasons that if you want to know - ask Dave Helms.
     
  10. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    #10 davehelms, Apr 16, 2005
    Thanks Steve. I am still learning every day.
    I have thought about it a bit and now remember steel ferrels being used on 0677GT TdF and on 0801GT PF. I know that they were used through all of the SWB's as well. I do not remember what the GTO used or the Monza. This is where we call in the knowledge of the cranky and crotchity Shanugssey (too early to spell Tom's name correctly) as he can shed light on this issue. He is a wealth of info on questions like this and on late model Mondials, not to mention he has all the parts. Wake up Tom..Tom?
    Dave
     
  11. malcolmb

    malcolmb Formula 3
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    Malcolm Barksdale
    #11 malcolmb, Apr 16, 2005
    Noow Dave, lets be nice to Tom untill he brings my hood home....
     
  12. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    #12 davehelms, Apr 18, 2005
    Heck, Tom is a good friend and a True pro. He just hates it when I say nice things about him publicly.
    Dave
     

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