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Window glitch

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by greatscott73, Nov 20, 2019.

  1. greatscott73

    greatscott73 Karting

    Sep 1, 2017
    102
    West central Florida
    Full Name:
    Howard Scott
    Here's one for you electrical whizzes. The passenger door power window in my 87 cab is a bit slow, but tolerable. However, when I push the switch in either direction for up or down, the only way anything moves is if I give the door panel a smack with the palm of my hand in the general area of where the motor bolts to the door frame. I went in and cleaned all the terminals, including the 3-wire bundle that is grounded to the frame, but it doesn't seem to make a difference. I'm wondering if it may be an internal fault in the motor itself. Any educated guesses?
     
  2. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
    2,319
    Uk
    Connect a voltmeter and measure when it is operating, if the voltage drops too much then nothing will happen, i can let you have the wiring diagram if needed
     
  3. greatscott73

    greatscott73 Karting

    Sep 1, 2017
    102
    West central Florida
    Full Name:
    Howard Scott
    Thank you for the generous offer. Actually, the voltage seems OK since it looks like someone hooked one of Birdman's accelerators previously. After taking the entire mech apart, the track and cable were pretty gummed up, so I'm amazed it works at all. Since these original Bosch motors seem to be hard to come by, I wonder if anyone has come up with a different or later motor that will bolt up.
     
  4. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jan 21, 2004
    1,436
    Argent/Brasil/Blgium
    Full Name:
    Guido
    I did change my QV doors with 3.2 doors...other mecanisme. So problem solved...
    Guido
     
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  5. greatscott73

    greatscott73 Karting

    Sep 1, 2017
    102
    West central Florida
    Full Name:
    Howard Scott
    I have the 3.2 mechanism, thank heavens, but the motor seems awfully tired. I detached it from the track and wired it directly to 12 volts and it turns, but slowly. I fear the end is nigh....
     
  6. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
    2,319
    Uk
    If the motor is still working then it is fix able, probably just needs new bearings and cleaning. Diy or find a local repair shop.
     
  7. jkstevens2

    jkstevens2 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2015
    168
    Winter Park, FL
    Full Name:
    JK Stevens
    They call that trick of hitting the door panel......."the fonz"
     
  8. 88MONDIAL

    88MONDIAL Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2005
    1,003
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Full Name:
    Jim Smith
    When I start my car my tach doesn't work at all, just sits at 0. I have to tap the binnacle right above it lightly, one time. It's Italian charm. It's "normal" Haha. Seriously hope you can get it figured out.
     
  9. jgoodman

    jgoodman F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2009
    2,846
    Central PA
    Full Name:
    Jay Goodman
    Like Mike said, it’s likely not an electrical problem. It’s a thick caked grease problem. If you get to it and regrease the entire mechanism especially the motor, it should improve.
     
  10. greatscott73

    greatscott73 Karting

    Sep 1, 2017
    102
    West central Florida
    Full Name:
    Howard Scott
    Even after extreme de-caking, the motor barely moves, so I'm in the process of trying to source another.
    The track itself was gummed up so badly it is a wonder anything moved at all. That has been rectified.
    The long term plan is to try and find someone locally who will freshen up the old motor, but so far not having any success on that front.
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    18,637
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    This is a sign of corrosion/oxidation between the brushes and the commutator segments inside the motor. These type of motors need to be run occasionally to keep this interface clean and in good electrical contact -- very common for often disused rear window motors on any marque car to have this issue.
     
  12. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
    2,319
    Uk
    Just take it to bits and stick new bearings in it, give it a good clean with electrical cleaner and see what happens.
     
  13. greatscott73

    greatscott73 Karting

    Sep 1, 2017
    102
    West central Florida
    Full Name:
    Howard Scott
    Any idea where to source those bearings? It feels like it needs some, since it is rather "lumpy" when turned in the housing.
     
  14. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
    2,319
    Uk
    Bearing are bearings- just get the old ones out and read the numbers off the sides. Any local bearing and seal supplier will stock them. Motors are probably Bosch and they dont make bearings, but use stock ones
     
  15. greatscott73

    greatscott73 Karting

    Sep 1, 2017
    102
    West central Florida
    Full Name:
    Howard Scott
    To keep everyone up to date: I tried every suggestion and every other thing I could think of to get my window motor working to no avail. Finally gave up and bought a used motor off of ebay for a VERY reasonable price. Bolted it in and now everything works as designed. Window goes up and down at normal speed, and door panel rapping isn't required for operation, lol. Thanks to everyone that spent their time responding and offering expertise. It is always appreciated.
     
  16. alexion

    alexion Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 20, 2013
    813
    New York
    You're welcome! It cost me $1200 for a new motor and track from Ferrari.
     
  17. greatscott73

    greatscott73 Karting

    Sep 1, 2017
    102
    West central Florida
    Full Name:
    Howard Scott
    I found this rather odd wear damage on the armature after taking everything apart, so I think the thing was on its way out anyway. Only seems to be in the one spot, which I thought was weird. Anyway, alls well that ends well, for about a grand total of $75
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  18. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
    2,319
    Uk
    The bearing are probably worn and it rubbing due to its balance, it is a wound rotor so it will not have damaged the wire. Were the bearings tight or damaged
     
  19. greatscott73

    greatscott73 Karting

    Sep 1, 2017
    102
    West central Florida
    Full Name:
    Howard Scott
    Here's an updated piece of info with tired motors in the doors of your later mechanism Mondials or 328s. I found a motor from a company called A1 Electric in California that is selling these NEW for the princely sum of $95. It even has the Bosch 070 part number on the case for the right side door. Considering the used price seems to be considerably more on sights such as ebay, I thought it was quite a find. Always nice to replace with new as opposed to 30 year old used. It appears to have sat on a shelf for a considerable time, but They assure me it has never been used.
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  20. greatscott73

    greatscott73 Karting

    Sep 1, 2017
    102
    West central Florida
    Full Name:
    Howard Scott
    FYI, these motors are listed strictly as a Bosch replacement motor on their site. Ferrari is never mentioned. When I told the guy on the phone what it was going in, he laughed at me and warned me there would be no returning it if it didn't fit.
     
  21. alexion

    alexion Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 20, 2013
    813
    New York
    There's still 30 year old grease inside
     
  22. greatscott73

    greatscott73 Karting

    Sep 1, 2017
    102
    West central Florida
    Full Name:
    Howard Scott
    True, but after having a couple of these apart at this point, Bosch seems to have used a better quality lube than Ferrari did on the track. I have seen no evidence of the solidified glop inside the motors that was so prevalent on the mechanism. I suppose the heat generated by a running motor may also affect that situation.
     

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