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Why aren't we remaking them ?!

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by Aristocrat, Nov 9, 2013.

  1. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    What model is it going into, Mark?
     
  2. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    Are they able to sell that with Ferrari Branded Valve covers?

    Is that motor from GTO Engineering or another Manufacturer?

    Thanks.
     
  3. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Aren't those labeled Ferrari?
     
  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #79 miurasv, Nov 13, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
    Ferrari Classiche Engine I'd have thought? Who makes them for Classiche?
     
  5. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    #80 Vincent Vangool, Nov 13, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
    I see both sides of the argument of recreations. I am both for and against them.

    I'm mostly for them for I feel it is the only way to slow down the thinning of the herd. I also like recreations if done right. Lets face it, most of the old cars are way out of reach even for serious collectors and many of these cars are now in the hands of investors versus enthusiasts. I realize Ferrari is a collectable brand but I would always prefer to see enthusiasts getting their kicks out of these cars versus investors who buy them that don't really have a passion for the car but more for the value.

    I'd like to see guys who love them being able to drive the closest thing regularly, enjoy it, and get them out into the world for others to see.

    I agree the real ones will always be the real ones. and I don't believe tool room recreations will diminish their value. But cheap Chinese cars everywhere would tarnish the mystique for the casual observer.

    For me it is about getting these cars into the real world. Truthfully I'd badge it a Ferrari. I would WANT to fake the illusion for some people but always reveal it for what it is to those in the know. Reason being is these cars are mostly stashed away out of sight of the American public. Sure Bardinon had an amazing collection but very few got to ever see these cars that didn't attend an event.

    The cars are not out in the real world to catch the eye of a future enthusiast. When I was a kid I saw my first Ferrari, a 308, but that quickly led my curiosity back to the fifties where I found the heart of these cars and that moment changed my life forever. I'd like to see more kids seeing a 250 SWB on a street corner, real or not, and igniting the passion as that 308 did for me. As for the kid, or the casual passerby, I'd let him think it was a Ferrari, why not? That is basically what it is. It is their design and if built correctly and to that design then basically that's what it is. I would not do this for my ego or to fake that I was the man, but to let them have their Ferrari experience, cause real or not they are getting that experience from an exact copy of the car. For me to take that away from them is worse, to me, then just letting them believe he just saw an old Ferrari. For the guy that has some knowledge I'd love to talk his ear off about how this recreation was made and how close it is.

    But I also believe these are Ferrari's designs and why should someone else profit off of them? Even if it's legal to do so, and mostly if they were built in mass quantity's. In other words, I feel it could get out of hand and if values are affected or not, it would be a shame for these cars to be diluted by mass cheap copies that take away from how special it is to sit in the presence of a classic Ferrari. But like someone said before, Ferrari is not the keeper of the flame, so maybe others need to take over this work to keep the legend alive.

    As for companies. There are many people building bodies. But it is nice to see engines etc being made due to it will help to keep the real ones going longer. It would be cool to get a list going of various builders and manufacturers of vintage Ferrari Recreated parts. Even the ones in China that are doing it. Would be nice to have a comprehensive list of what is out there. Here is one place that will interest you...

    Fine Sports Cars: World's Leader in Classic Cars and Vintage Sports Racing Cars

    In the end I'd rather see more Ferrari's then Ferrari ever made back in the day, due to recreations being made WITHOUT donor cars, then less Ferrari's due to re-buildable cars becoming parts donors.

    These are the greatest cars in what is soon becoming the end of an Era. Gas, stick-shift, rear wheel drive cars are an endangered species at this point and we should do all we can to keep as many examples of thefinest ever in existance through the passage of time. I also believe they should be restored correctly and minimally as to keep as much of the real car intact as is possible. This can only be done by skilled craftsmen, hopefully using the old ways, to recreate what is needed to stop the attrition of what is left.
     
  6. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    #81 Vincent Vangool, Nov 13, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
    Ahh. For some reason Classiche didn't even cross my head.

    Recreated engine came to mind and I immediately thought GTO engineering.

    Is this from Classiche?
     
  7. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    Appear to be. But as brought up it may be a Classiche motor. I just made the mistake of assuming it was aftermarket recreation. If not Classiche I guess the covers could be bolted on later? Not sure of the rules when it comes to badging a recreated aftermarket motor.
     
  8. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

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    hi Steve, an original 250 California, the new owner wants to safe guard the original engine by turning it into a coffee table - And before anyone asks thats all the info i am given out.
     
  9. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    I think that is a smart move. Do you know if the motor is from Classiche?
     
  10. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    I need a 250 INSIDE plug engine for a car I have.....

    What would it cost to replicate a similar engine?
     
  11. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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  12. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie
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    What, if anything, is going to be stamped on the boss below the right distributor drive?
     
  13. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    #88 El Wayne, Nov 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    My immediate thought as well.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. Aristocrat

    Aristocrat Rookie

    Jun 13, 2013
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    I totally see where you come from, however, the further in time you go through generations the lesser experts, snobs, blueblooded enthusiasts -who can tell a perfectly copied example from the real deal- will there be. Which WILL endanger the history of your beloved brand. In any case, if what you truely strive is the continuation of the existance of these cars in future generations minds and hearts, if what you really want is simply for people to keep seeing 250's around the corner and to know that these are Ferrari's of olden days, then all you need to do is use Ferrari badges (is badgery a word?) and insignia only add to it what differentiates it from the original car and what says clearly that it's a "recreation". And love your ride for what it is.
    Because Ferrari stopped making them and had they resumed I would pay 4 -5 times the price of the copy just so they - and not someone else- would profit from me, but sadly they don't. And "someone else" did.
    They won't affect thier values. Just like how Rembrandts didn't lose value with the rise of all those high quality copies, if anything, they actually added value to the real paintings because it's just one other proof of thier greatness.
    A bit far from your point I know, it just reminded me of a story from the beginning of my passion with cars :) .. In mid 1990's Mercedes Benz started experimenting the idea of offering AMG reworked models to thier customers from thier own showrooms. The E55 was one of the first experiments and back then outside Europe (American and other parts of the world) very few knew what an AMG was, especially with the descrete and very slight and tasteful visual differences Mercedes differentiated these models from the regular models with at the time. There was a cult feel, a mystical charm to the community of these cars. When an AMG drove by, and at the time your city would have 1 or 2 models most, and the very rare occasion of someone turning thier head and checking your car out in a traffic, both of you would look at one another afterwards and there would be a very slight side smile and almost unnoticeable nod of camaraderie. You were brothers in arm who didn't wanna blow each other's covers' up. I realized that this was a big part of my passion towards these cars only after I had - FINALLY - become able to afford purchasing a new one, thinking I have fulfilled my decade old dream, which went a bit underwhelmingly if this is a word, having achieved my dream in the days when everything that came out of Mercedes plants had an AMG counterpart even thier sales manager has an AMG tuned brother I imagine who wears a sleeker suit and a more aerodynamically shaped mustache.

    IF this is what some people earlier referred to as diluting the brand, then maybe I feel what they say a little...
     
  15. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

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    HI - no this engine is not from Classiche.

    the complete build dyno tested engines can be obtained from Roelofs, GTO and many different sources in Italy, including Classiche.

    As far as i know Ferrari does not cast the blocks themselves, they are done by one of the cottage industries in Maranello - i am under the impression they supply blocks to Classiche and all the other "engineering" shops that give the impression that they make their own blocks.
     
  16. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

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    No not from GTO

    you can buy the Ferrari rocker covers on ebay for £350, and just about every other Classic Ferrari parts supplier, but they a re 3 times the price there.
     
  17. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

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    your guess is as good as mine!

    just an FYI - if it was a Classiche block this area would be stamped as such.
     
  18. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
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  19. Aristocrat

    Aristocrat Rookie

    Jun 13, 2013
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    ah .. spent half the morning browsing through .. would love to see companies as high quality as these guys that build recreations in the truest sense -in my point of view- which is to build them on entirely new chassese' and register them as 2013 recreation cars. Here's hoping.
     
  20. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    Well, Not me. I saw way more then 2 AMG's a day as I worked for the original AMG company in the mid 80's before Mercedes aquired them. I spent my days watching the Hammers being built.

    Good times.
     
  21. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    #96 Vincent Vangool, Nov 14, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
    Kind of scary that the motors are not pre-stamped? Seems like they could easily be counterfitted as the real deal.

    I hope there is some sort of something that identifies them as reproduction?

    Any idea of how much this repro motor costs?
     
  22. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    #97 Vincent Vangool, Nov 14, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
    Interesting. Seems that the Roelof's covers don't have the Ferrari on them.

    Roelofs Parts

    I am all for recreations but I do think there should be visible marks for those in the know to tell the difference.
     
  23. Aristocrat

    Aristocrat Rookie

    Jun 13, 2013
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    *envy .. envy .. envy*
     
  24. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    Ha. It was a cool job. I guess I was at the right place at the right time.

    Wish I had taken some pictures.
     
  25. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2007
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    The cam covers don't say Ferrari on them because that would interfere with Ferrari branding rights and they would find themselves in court. They legally can't produce and sell parts with the word Ferrari on them or a Ferrari logo on them. They are doing exactly what they should be doing and not violating the law.

    There are visible marks that can tell you if the part is legitimate.., or actually there aren't. If the parts aren't marked with a Ferrari logo or casting mark or don't say Ferrari on them they likely aren't Ferrari parts. If Ferrari doesn't put their logo on their parts, well then too bad for them, they have the right to and nobody else does. If the original didn't have a casting mark or logo on it, it could be reproduced so that no one could tell the difference.
     

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