Why are Asian cars ugly? | FerrariChat

Why are Asian cars ugly?

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by Bullfighter, Mar 10, 2010.

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  1. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #1 Bullfighter, Mar 10, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2010
    Maybe I just don't "understand" their design language. Also, I admit I'm generalizing, because the S2000 was basically an attractive car (and thus got axed).

    But if I had to make a list of the 100 best looking cars of the last 40 years I would be hard pressed to find an Asian car that I would include. In any price range. The highest praise I can come up with is that "Subarus aren't freakishly ugly anymore" or "the Honda Fit looks tidy for what it is" or "the Lexus RX looks nice". The Datsun 240Z is one of their better ones, but it may have been a happy accident inspired from elsewhere, because every succeeeding version made it worse up through the hideously swollen 2010 Nissan 370Z.

    Their interiors are typically low rent. Even the upmarket Honda/Acura NSX looks plastic and disposable, as though Honda was designing the car to be recycled. Even the better interiors are perfunctory, not something to savor. A Range Rover or Audi TT or S8 is a place you want to take in even before you start the vehicle. A Lexus interior is done in a quality way, but never sexy.

    And this isn't a broad swipe at Japanese or other Asian cultures -- their artistic achievements are vast in almost any other area I can think of. It just seems that whereas the Italians can translate their aesthetics to automobiles (Alfa 8C, Maserati GranTurismo, Dino 246, Ferrari 308, 250 GT -- many of them -- Daytona, etc.), Japan and Korea seem to have no talent for it. Even their copies of Italian designs (NSX) don't get the proportions right. It's as though they can't combine art and machinery any more than Americans can combine a soccer ball and a goal.

    The English produce beautiful Jags, Astons and Range Rovers, and the Germans seem to get it right (356A, 911, Merc SL, Audi TT) more often than not (Panamera, 928): Audi is setting the pace, and the Porsche 918 Spyder prototype is devastatingly gorgeous, probably the best car of the last decade.

    So, back to Japan. Here's the new Honda CRZ, which could have looked great, but:

    http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/09/with-cr-z-honda-will-find-out-if-u-s-is-ready-for-a-sporty-hybrid/?ref=automobiles

    The nose on this thing is a disaster. And it lacks any graceful curves or sense of proportion. Of course it's a relatively cheap car, but then I think of the Nissan GTR and Lexus LFA, which are expensive and forgettable. For a $350,000 sticker price, did the LFA have to look kind of like an Altima coupe? And does the Infinit G coupe have to look like an Altima coupe? And even the Lexus IS convertible looks like an Altima coupe.

    Acura could be the worst of the lot among Japanese brands -- I really can't tell them apart, and they seem to think that sticking the pointy beak motif onto the rear bumper as well is some kind of brilliant design stroke. Acura could be taken to court by the World Chrome Association for flagrant abuse of the stuff.

    So, are there any Asian cars that make it into the design hall of fame?

    </rant>
     
  2. Devilsolsi

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    #2 Devilsolsi, Mar 10, 2010
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  3. Qvb

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    #3 Qvb, Mar 10, 2010
    Over slammed with gold wheels? That's the way to make your point.
     
  4. agup48

    agup48 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #4 agup48, Mar 10, 2010
    Still love these cars, and want one. Haven't seen too many and they still look good.
     
  5. yoda

    yoda F1 Rookie

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    #5 yoda, Mar 10, 2010
    Yeah the whole non-functional "agressive" wheel movement is not my cup of tea. It's disturbing how rampant it's becoming around here.


    The interiors of European cars have always seemed better than what comes out of Japan. Exterior looks are subjective, but I agree that European cars tend to have classic looks and lines that don't seem to age as quickly as Japanese cars.
     
  6. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #6 rdefabri, Mar 10, 2010
    There have been some decent designs, but on the whole, a little conservative.

    I had a 240Z - great lines. I also agree with the RX7, and I thought the Z32 300ZX was amazing.

    My 2000 GS400 was a really neat design, but Lexus got all conservative and ruined the edginess that is the current model.

    There are others (2000GT, S2000), but I can see your point.
     
  7. ylshih

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    #7 ylshih, Mar 10, 2010
    I think you need to look at Asian art museums for an answer, which is that it is probably cultural. I ran a design shoot-off between 6 Indian/Chinese/Japanese offshore manufacturers a few years back. What was unusual about this was that we asked for it to be turnkey, including the product/industrial design. We wanted to see what their ID guys would come up with if let loose. Previously we had hired the ID from the US and then sent the ID to the offshore ODM as a basis for development. What they came back with was atrocious (to our eyes); but if you studied it you could see the influences of each culture underlying the offering. That was the last time we did that.
     
  8. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #8 Bullfighter, Mar 10, 2010
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    It's not an unattractive car, but it is generic in the same way the Miata (which it very much resembles, apart from the metal roof) is. It think it's telling that the owners of the last two needed to bling it up with aftermarket wheels to add some interest to the design.

    Maybe the functional influences of German culture (rear-engined 911 dictates shape) and Italian sensitivity to geometry and curves (Lusso, 246, etc.) influence their offerings in a way that is more compatible with cars. Italians seem to draw curves (308 fender line, 250 GTO everything, many Alfas, etc.) that are inherently pleasing. They know the "right" curve and it's a priority item, not an afterthought.

    Japanese and Korean designers seem to draw curves because they are required around a wheel, or add them later out of some random obligation to dress up a functional shape.

    Hard to explain, obviously, as I'm doing a poor job of it...
     
  9. moretti124guy

    moretti124guy Formula Junior

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    #9 moretti124guy, Mar 10, 2010
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    I think that Asia has given us a nice number of restrained (design) sports cars. The RX7 FD looks amazing and I would love to find a clean one that has not been turned into a Fast and Furious replica. You have to consider when the RX7 FD was released in a 1992 Ford was still offering the Fox Body Mustang from 1979&#8230; the styling was great and still looks contemporary today.

    I'll take and of the cars below....
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  10. Pcar928fan

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    #10 Pcar928fan, Mar 10, 2010
    I think it is mostly the newer cars... The older ones look pretty good. Supra, 300ZX, RX7...each of those cars in their final iteration in the mid '90's looked GREAT! Not so much these days. Even the last of the NSX's were not as nice as the pop headlight initial version! Just my opinion....yours may very.
     
  11. Bullfighter

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    #11 Bullfighter, Mar 10, 2010
    That white 240SX and white RX7 look like basically the same car. I realize they're not hideous (like the black fish-mouthed one in your second pic), but they are about as boring as a two-door car can be. I remember that second gen RX7 was a Japanese copy of the Porsche 944.

    I'd agree the Toyota GT is a pretty car, which is why I went back 40 years in my original post. But as soon as Toyota starting really mass producing cars we got a lot of slab-sided yawnmobiles.
     
  12. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 anunakki, Mar 10, 2010
    I have to agree its a cultural thing. I find most things from Asia are hideous in my eyes. Gaudy and over-worked. Same with the Middle East.

    Cars, packaging, architecture, clothing, movies...most of it is just awful to me.

    But in the world of autos I do see some beauty. The RX7 (1st gen ) The Toyota GT. The 240z. and a few others.
     
  13. SSNISTR

    SSNISTR F1 Veteran

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    #13 SSNISTR, Mar 10, 2010
    Overall I totally agree. But the last gen Supra is a good looking car, the last gen RX-7 is nice too. Call me crazy, but I think the new 370Z is MUCH nicer then the 350Z, and I actually like the LFA alot....but I think the new GT-R is ugly, go figure.
     
  14. nikkis34

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    #14 nikkis34, Mar 10, 2010
    Asian car manfacturers design cars so that they are cheaper to manufacture. They are more worried about keeping costs down and making reliable cars, then they are worried about designing head turners.
     
  15. Cozmic_Kid

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    #15 Cozmic_Kid, Mar 10, 2010
    Toyota seem pretty expensive in spareparts, and also not that reliable :D



    I agree 100% with Bullfighter here.
     
  16. anunakki

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    #16 anunakki, Mar 10, 2010
    Im sure thats true to a point but its not why so many of us find them unattractive.
     
  17. fiorano94

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    #17 fiorano94, Mar 10, 2010
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  18. Bullfighter

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    #18 Bullfighter, Mar 10, 2010
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    True, eyes of the beholder, etc., but I'm surprised you posted a photo of the Maxda RX8, which I think is an absolute styling disaster. The greenhouse is too long; the fenders are tacked on; the extra door never looked right; etc. It lacks any cohesiveness and may be one of the worst proportioned cars on the road, along with anything from Scion, and could have been the worst until the Nissan Leaf/Cube thing appeared.

    The bottom photo looks like a Ferrari 599 with a wing and a Honda badge. Is that a road car?
     
  19. Devilsolsi

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    #19 Devilsolsi, Mar 10, 2010
    I think part of the problem is that you are comparing very different cars. There aren't really any Asian cars that competed with any of the cars you mention here. Until the 90s most of the cars coming out of Asia were economy cars. They don't have an equal to Ferrari or Maserati. I do think the 240z is a good looking car, but you can't compare it to a 250 GT or Daytona or any other car you mentioned. They are in different leagues.

    I also have come to the conclusion that Asian cars don't photograph well. The 370Z looks great in person, but terrible in pictures, same with the FD3 RX7.
     
  20. rossocorsa13

    rossocorsa13 F1 Rookie

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    #20 rossocorsa13, Mar 10, 2010
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    No, race car only, I think. And a damn crazy one. Although not as good as the Mazda Furai (sp?).

    Asian cars aren't necessarily ugly. They're just not...uhm...well, gorgeous. I'm of the Fast and Furious generation (I'm 23) and have to say that I appreciate many of the designs that have come out of Japan in the last, oh, 15-20 years. The R33 and R34 Skylines, the RX-7, the original Miata, the Integra, the NSX, the S2000, etc. I also have to say that I'm a fan, albeit a picky one, of the import culture, and of the idea that there's nothing like building a personalized car from a really basic platform.

    I think that part of the reason for the "ugliness" observed in the typical Japanese car comes from the simplicity inherent in an economy based platform. And while simplicity may not necessarily breed cosmetic brilliance, it provides a solid starting point that has often proved indicative of promising aftermarket (read, substantially cheaper than Italian/German/British factory setups) performance.

    The beauty of a Japanese car does not come from the aesthetic pleasure received from viewing it. It comes from the knowledge of what it's capable of doing.

    The last generation Supras and R34 Skylines are prime examples of this interpretation of automotive beauty. Both of the engines in these cars (the 2JZ-GTE and the RB26DETT, respectively) have bottom ends that will withstand mild single turbo setups capable of breathing 500-600 horsepower without any modification whatsoever. Even the engine in my car (an SR20DE, present in N/A form in the 200SX SE-R and turbo form in the Japanese Silvia and American Infiniti G20) has been known to handle turbo setups capable of 400 horsepower with only inlet, exhaust, fuel, and electronic modification.

    The point I'm making is that originally, Japanese cars were built on the principle of endurance, and this gave way (especially in the '90s) to cars that were built so well from the factory that aftermarket tuners couldn't help but take notice of their potential.

    They may not be Alfa Romeo pretty, but they'll certainly run circles around cars well beyond their price range. The R33 GT-R set the Nurburgring lap record in 1996 at 7 minutes and 59 seconds, and although it was controversial (big boost, sticky tires, who knows if/what it was running over factory specification?) it proved that a modified basic platform can do extremely well against fancy factory counterparts.

    That's the beauty of Japanese engineering.
     
  21. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #21 Bullfighter, Mar 10, 2010
    I agree, Ferrari and Maserati are cost-no-object marques, so yeah, you can do a lot more with endless money, no fuel economy considerations, no platform sharing, etc. A Daytona body was hugely expensive to construct, and it was a $20,000 car back in 1970, IIRC.

    But when we start comparing Alfa Romeo Giuliettas to Datsun B210 Honeybees, I think it's closer to apples-to-apples. And those Alfas are pretty timeless.
     
  22. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #22 Bullfighter, Mar 10, 2010
    Absolutely agree. My first ride in a competition-prepared car was back in high school when a customer of the import car parts place I worked took me for a white-knuckled spin in his Toyota Corolla FX16, which cornered dead level and stopped fast enough to pop your eyes forward cartoon style. The owner, Terry Morgan, had tweaked everything. It was his GTI fighter, and a good one.

    That said, the FX16 was the dorkiest SCCA racer you could buy back then (late '80s). I think Terry also had a Jaguar that he drove to meet girls.
     
  23. marzo

    marzo Formula Junior

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    #23 marzo, Mar 11, 2010
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    A lot of the new asian cars are complete crap and honestly no point to buy them at all... only for non car people looking for something to commute.

    Personally some of my favorite cars ever made are such as the Toyota Supra, Skyline R34, Silvia S15, NSX, FD RX7... and these are well over a generation old... the design on the cars is amazing and some of them have better performance compared to the new cars today.

    There is nothing you can do, the manafactures will continue to make these ugly ass cars...
     
  24. darth550

    darth550 Six Time F1 World Champ
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    #24 darth550, Mar 11, 2010
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  25. dbw

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    #25 dbw, Mar 11, 2010
    now we all know there has never been an ugly british car..or a french one..or even an italian one!!!!the good old us of a has had it's share of buttugly babies as well...don't be so harsh on asian stuff till you get a serious belly full of the rest of the worlds awful stuff.
     
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