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Who lives in Dubai?

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by Yquem, Nov 15, 2006.

  1. Yquem

    Yquem Formula 3

    Dec 2, 2003
    1,403
    BELGIO
    Full Name:
    JR
    Hello to all,

    My brother and I will be in Dubai from november the 24th till december the 1st. So next week.

    We are especially flying over for mainly 3 reasons :
    - To learn more about the real estate opportunities
    - To see where the hype is all about
    - To finally enjoy some holiday, this means bars, restos & fun.

    For us, it would be quite enjoyable to talk with some locals and expats who really know where Dubai's city life and business is all about.

    Of course, if there's already a Ferrari connection it makes things just that little bit easier....

    Feel free to get in touch, first serve is on me!

    Cordiali saluti,
    Joren REMANS

    jorenremans@yahoo.com
     
  2. Michael Collins

    Michael Collins Formula Junior

    Apr 6, 2004
    272
    Shanghai/Melbourne
    Sadly seems no one wants to talk to from Dubai.

    I lived there for 20 years, left in 2003, made a fortune ther and elsewhere (China), I have said it before on this forum, the Arabs breath in not out.

    Its very tough, I know how much I have left there with no chance of recovery. Probably 80% of this board do not dream to have that much money. Having said that I also made a lot while there.

    I had the inspection contract for the Bur Jal Arab hotel construction phase back a while amongst many other things. I am very well connected in Dubai but when it comes to getting paid it tough.

    The real estate there was not available when I lived there (it a new thing for forigners to buy property). I was involved with the Palm Island Project at the begining, but decided to leave Dubai as I had seen so many fall by the wayside and I did not want to follow.

    So be careful the roads are not all paved in gold even though they will tell you that. remember if it looks to good to be true then it usually is.

    I guess if you go into Biggles bar (Airport hotel) at around 5 -6 pm and ask for Bill Tyler then you will find a good sensible guy who knows the Middle East backwards (he's a retired corporate lawyer, ex boss of ITT Middle East and an all round good guy)
     
  3. Razzer92

    Razzer92 F1 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2006
    4,439
    dont forget to take your camera you'll probley see like veyron's and crazy cars driveing around
     
  4. Yquem

    Yquem Formula 3

    Dec 2, 2003
    1,403
    BELGIO
    Full Name:
    JR
    Thanks Michael for at least one decent answer in the last 3 months.

    I have seen it now, made up my conclusion and that's far it. As you said not all the roads are paved in gold in sure the Arabs only breath in. It's all very much Las Vegas style so you like it or not. For sure there are some good opportunities but it has to be your cup of tea.

    Nevertheless when I go back Abu Dhabi is the next stop.

    Unfortunately I didn't spot a Veyron but the Landcruisers with Dakar powertuned engines made it unforgettable.

    JR
     
  5. Michael Collins

    Michael Collins Formula Junior

    Apr 6, 2004
    272
    Shanghai/Melbourne
    Hope you enjoyed the trip its a great place for a holiday.

    As your next trip is into Abu Dhabi, expect to have either of the following between you and your goal. Palestinian, Lebonese or Egyptian Guys. These guys speak English so they get the to negotiate with potential inverstors etc.

    They like to insert themselves into the deal at your cost and will promise the earth for you. Once a contract is signed, expect the specification to change to a higher one costing you more. They will not help you, they have their money.

    Be carefull some of the things do not even exist, but are made up for these guys to make money at your expence.

    Even if the deal is good it will cost you 10% in and they never pay the last 10% so price it in

    Have fun it can be done.
     
  6. menoy

    menoy F1 Rookie

    Mar 12, 2005
    2,644
    PL
    Full Name:
    MRodziewicz
    ... wondering if nearly 2yrs on this thread will bring in more of a response :) I'll be coming to live in Dubai in search of a job on sat, 15th nov. Any fchatters live in Dubai?
     
  7. vipermann123

    vipermann123 Formula 3

    Jun 13, 2005
    1,753
    Irvine, Ca
    Full Name:
    Uzy Malik
    False impression of Dubai.

    With respect to Dubai, from "far away" it seems like the "Monaco of the Middle East".
    Truth of the matter is that the Royal Family has and controls nearly all the wealth.
    The general public is barely scrapping by, living pay-check to pay-check.
    Most of the owners of wealthy high-end cars, are either foreigners (who hide their wealth there) or Royal Sheiks from various countries.

    Many of the large scale building and real estate projects are controlled by the royal family and their family.

    In Dubai, (someone Please correct me if I am wrong), you may be asked to take on a "Local partner' in any venture you decide to pursue.

    Good luck, and keep us all posted on how everything goes.

    Thanks,
    UZY
     
  8. Pav

    Pav Formula 3
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 18, 2006
    2,095
    Warsaw, Poland
    Full Name:
    Michal
    Marek wracasz do taty? Daj mi twojego GG jeszcze raz to porozmawiamy o DXB (moje to 12755488) . Ja mam gotowy projekt ale postponuje juz od 18 miesiecy z powodu konjektury i tylko robie tam i z powrotem miedzy Dubajem a tutaj dwa razy do roku.
     
  9. menoy

    menoy F1 Rookie

    Mar 12, 2005
    2,644
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    MRodziewicz
    I lived in Dubai '90-'97, so I have somewhat of an impression of Dubai. Of course I was just a kid then and Dubai was quite a different city, but it's something I can lean on :) ... hopefully!
     
  10. Samimi

    Samimi Formula 3

    Oct 17, 2005
    1,664
    North of the 49th
    Full Name:
    S.
    +1, very true. "The law states that you are required to have a local partner in Dubai that holds the majority interest in the company. This means that the partner can control the business and it can be an individual or a company. The partner does not have to contribute financially to the start up business."
     
  11. menoy

    menoy F1 Rookie

    Mar 12, 2005
    2,644
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    Full Name:
    MRodziewicz


    This seems to not be the case anymore;

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120489&highlight=dubai
     
  12. Yquem

    Yquem Formula 3

    Dec 2, 2003
    1,403
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    JR
    #12 Yquem, Nov 15, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
    Remember shiny things are not always gold. It's full of expats there and everything is overhyped and quite artificial. For me it's like Disneyland; it's a new world. The insert in Gulf News about real estate is a newspaper itself. Who is going to buy all this property? I believe for the moment there are 40,000 ! apartments for sale. Best thing is to go there on holiday for 1 week not more. To fully enjoy bring a lot of Dirhams. There is simply too much of everything and Dubai is bigger then you first thought. Actually you find the same things in Europe but with a lot more class and character. Compensations can be good but you need to know your ways and be connected. It will be tough in the beginning. It's a world of differences and contradictions, there is a lot of money but there is also the world of all the Pakistanis etc. And they also live in 'Dubai'. On the car side all the high levels are starting from the year 2000, it's all new stuff. If a blondie tells you at a hotel bar that she works for a Russian airline company... she's not.
    In what kind of professional environment are you looking? Finance, real estate, retail, construction, tourism?
    To really make money there I think you should have left 10 years or so ago.

    I was there last August again and one of my better experiences in Dubai was a helicopter flight above the Islands and The World. It has to be said but that truly is a masterpiece of engineering!

    Why don't you go to Abu Dhabi? They will have the Ferrari theme park....

    In case the Royals gonna allow gambling the world is yours.

    Best of luck,
    JR
     
  13. menoy

    menoy F1 Rookie

    Mar 12, 2005
    2,644
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    MRodziewicz
    #13 menoy, Nov 16, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
    Yquem, as per the real estate market I was wondering myself how it keeps afloat. With hundreds of projects under development and probably many more finished one would think there would be an oversupply... prices seem to indicate otherwise. I do admit, this is one aspect of Dubai that I completely don't understand.

    As for the 10yrs ago... not sure you noticed in my previous post, but I left Dubai 11yrs ago, having lived here over 7yrs. I was 13 at that time, so a bit early for starting a career of setting up a business. I am now 24, fresh after a Master's in Banking. So finance will be where I'll be looking for a job (not necessarily a bank), although I've lately been greatly giving the automotive sector a good deal of thinking - after all cars are what I love the most. Living in Poland, there's not much I could on count as far as the latter is concerned (at least without funds that are yet out of my reach).

    My choice of Dubai was quite simple - first of all I'm quite familiar with the city, as I grew up here (although yes, it has changed a lot) and second - I'm currently staying at my father's place, who moved back to Dubai some time ago, which gives me a certain 'buffer'. For now, I'll try and catch something in Dubai, but should a good opportunity arise I'm not ruling Abu Dhabi out. Especially since I've heard that Abu Dhabi wants to invest in Poland - there were talks about buying some of the Polish shipyards, which are currently going through very difficult times.




    PS Saw Burj Dubai and the Jumeirah Palm yesterday.... hmm.. impressive ;)
     
  14. Skyler

    Skyler Formula 3

    May 31, 2004
    1,856
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Skyler
    Hi,
    I'm essentially in the same boat as you; I came here a couple months back. As far as i've been told, most banks are on a 'hiring freeze', so I wish you luck for a position in the financial sector in general.

    Regarding the Real Estate market, its a bubble.
    A lot of projects have been put on hold and/or cancelled (according to industry insiders).

    Remember that most of these properties are sold on a "pre-pre-pre launch party". By the time you get to the "launch" the very same property/condo you are buying has exchanged hands a number of times, and you are now paying a price + a high premium.
    Not so long ago, you were allowed to buy a condo and plunk down only 5% of the cost. The prices were skyrocketing, so many people jumped in and bought a lot of properties, only paying the minimum 5% upfront and hoping to flip them in a couple of months and cash out a nice profit. The banking rules have changed; credit is not as easy to obtain anymore.. people are starting to struggle as they have gotten in over their heads.

    Someone I know was offered a villa on the Palm Jumeriah for about 60% of what it was selling for less than 5 months ago - For what its worth.

    There are still a lot of expats here in Dubai, there is a need for rental condo's. You also have to realize that the high rental prices are good income for the owner. Therefore it is keeping the value of the condo somewhat stable.

    Once the layoffs start and people are forced to leave the demand for rentals will come down, and I anticipate this will be one of the factors to bring down the real estate market. There are also 100 other reasons, but its too much to type.

    *Remember that you cannot stay here without a job for more than 30 days -- the usual timeframe of a visit visa.

    Cheers,
    p.s, it rained yesterday! Crazy.
     
  15. menoy

    menoy F1 Rookie

    Mar 12, 2005
    2,644
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    Full Name:
    MRodziewicz
    #15 menoy, Nov 16, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
    Skyler - same boat? Maybe row together? :D So what have you been doing here?... how's it been going?


    The real estate scenario was my only guess, properties getting sold over and over, plainly speculative - but again, this has to end somewhere? There comes a point where this spiral just can't be sustained and hearing that 60% (or was it 70... or 80) of the world's cranes are in Dubai (which gives a certain outlook on the amount of construction IF that figure was true) I'd have though that moment should long be here ... although your Palm Island example could be a beacon. As for expats and condos - again, how many could they need? The Waterfront, The Arabian Canal...? Who'll buy all that?? It seems though not only the higher end real estate has been involved in the price frenzy, but middle as well.

    I am somewhat aware about the banks' situation - as I wrote, not necessarily looking for a job in a bank... actually I'd prefer not to. We'll see how things go. My visa is valid for 60 (90?) days from entry, which is OK since, providing I don't find a job (knock on wood), that's when I'd be leaving anyway.



    And the rain... yeah, I seem to have brought it with me from Poland :D Had an amazing view of a storm over the Gulf during the flight. We were at 11k km and the storm cloud was even higher, during the night, lit up by lighting... simply breathtaking!! Looked like a massive, menacing mountain :)


    PS Saw a beautiful white R8 today... smashed up rear :(
     
  16. Skyler

    Skyler Formula 3

    May 31, 2004
    1,856
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Skyler
    Hi Marek, given the times, we just may have to row in the same boat!

    The real estate scenario is anyone’s guess! One thing’s for sure, the prices are grossly inflated and are going to be corrected sometime real soon.

    From what I’ve read, its 20-25% of world’s cranes in Dubai; 60% is just too much.

    The point about the rental market, applies mainly to the middle and not the high-end real-estate. Pick up the Gulf News, every page as a huge advert regarding property sales… in addition to the separate section for property they have; which is about the size of my entire newspaper back home. Lol

    I realize you are not necessarily looking for a job in a bank, but the entire financial market is not doing too well. If you are a ‘fresher’, you might have a bit of a tough time. I think in 6 months, things will pick up again… quickly.

    There is money to be made; right now businesses and people are scared. The end of the year is around the corner so some are reluctant to make big decisions until the New Year comes.

    Regarding the visas; I got issued a 60 day visa as well, but according to the govt. website it’s supposed to be 30 days max. However… you will quickly learn that the cops don’t really know what the rules are anyway… they just make them up as they go along. That’s how frequently they change.

    P.s, if you get a chance, pass by Bentley of Dubai… 2 Veyron’s in the show room at the moment. Also check out The mall of the Emirates; plenty of car spotting there!
     
  17. Pav

    Pav Formula 3
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 18, 2006
    2,095
    Warsaw, Poland
    Full Name:
    Michal
    Real Estate is kept on hold and will be for the upcoming months.
    Last year it was like this, guys arrived with 15 millions of dollars, and asking you to invest it. After buying some yet to be ready villas on palm jebel ali and selling them three months later, you came back with 35 millions, 10% for you, you were buying a Murcielago and khalas. It was that easy. Right.
    Now people are really warry.
    Prices still exceed the initial offerings but only by 30 to 150%. Before it was like crazy, 400-500% range. I never liked RE and i don't want to touch it.

    Marek, give me your MSN/facebook etc i heard DU/Etisalat blocked gadu-gadu.

    I also recommend you to read this:



    and this




    pozdr,
     
  18. menoy

    menoy F1 Rookie

    Mar 12, 2005
    2,644
    PL
    Full Name:
    MRodziewicz
    Oh joy! More happy news... ehh... couldn't my parents have had me a few years earlier/later? :p Straight out of university into a financial crisis!


    PS GG's fine ;) Got you on facebook (I hope that's you ;))
     

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