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Where is the 400/412 Market REALLY at?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by full_garage, Dec 24, 2010.

  1. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,208
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
    Yeah no kidding- Gonna get rid of the 928- mines really well sorted and a tremendous driver but I cannot get over the metric ton of black plastic in the interior.

    It seems there are two types of 400/412 owners- those who sour on the cars within a year and those who keep them for decades... Let's see how my enthusiasm for this series is in a year's time.

    Still finding it hard to believe that the market is so poor for these cars- I bought the white 400i for about HALF of what it would cost me to get the same amount of restoration work done locally- I think gutting an 83 400i and doing new paint, welding and repairing the lower door skins, rebuilding the heads with new valves, seats and guides, new accumulators, new Stebro exhaust, COMPLETE new leather and carpets and headliner, rebush front end, new motor and tranny mounts, resurface flywheel and new clutch, gear reduction starter, rebuild power steering pump, NEW TRX's and basically go through and do everything needed to fuel injection systems and electrical systems to make the car reliable- that is probably $60K+ around here- maybe substantially more... Not including the roughly $28K or so it would take to buy ANY 5 speed in mediocre cosmetic and mechanical condition- And even doing the work yourself assuming you could do all of that- you're still into $20K just in materials and parts and how many years of labor?? And yet somewhow it nags me that I "overpaid".

    The Series I 400I that was sold up here in MA a little while ago was at $40k when i looked at it- Nice paint, wrong lenses, old rubber, very worn interior, engine bay looked somewhat old and tired- car showed 30K on the clock but had the feel of an old, tired car- eventually sold for $30K. And even though that's roughly what I paid for the rebuilt Series II...

    The Silver car feels like a deal to me but I'm quite sure I paid tippy top of the market- I would doubt there will be a SINGLE 412 auto that changes hands for $37K this year in the States- so to address the point that many have made- I bought both cars with NO eye towards future resale value- they just seemed too cheap for ME not to buy, enjoy and have some fun with.

    Now gotta keep THREE Fcars fed and watered...oh boy!
     
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  3. simon klein

    simon klein F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 25, 2009
    18,872
    North Qld
    Full Name:
    simon klein
    Yep ,I agree.Anytime my 365 goes out usually it,s admiring comments,though I wonder
    just how much of it is because of the badge on the front.
    It,d be interesting to park it with the badges off and see what happens.
    Mind you as the owner of the (so called)ugliest production F car(according to most on the vintage section)I may be a little biased.
     
  4. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,208
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
    #228 full_garage, Jan 28, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well I would imagine most of the admiring glances are due to the marque- But a LOT of people recognize my 355 by the profile- no badges visible- and "Car Guys" should recognize the 400/412 series- i certainly did when i would see one on the road.

    Hard not to love this view of the 400i I'll be receiving shortly....I may not be able to resist the urge to put a spare set of Yoshi Shields I have on the flanks of this car- Always loved the look of Scuderia Shields against a white Ferrari.. even though I know it' so wrong....
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  5. Tassie

    Tassie Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2009
    342
    Tasmania, Australia
    Full Name:
    Wayne Clark
    Fellas,
    Firstly I have 3 400's so I care, but there has only been one person entering the workshop where my cars often spend time socializing who has commented on the 400's positively.
    There is usually a Dino 246 and 328 there as well as E Types, Healeys and other sports cars.
    Seen by themselves most comments are that "it doesn't look like a Ferrari" but the quality is obvious and the next most heard comment is "I'd hate to pay the bills".
    Personally I think they are for the people who no longer need to be extrovert- a subtle Ferrari.
     
  6. Highmiler

    Highmiler Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2010
    414
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Now that was well said!
    Greg
     
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  8. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 3, 2006
    1,870
    Tucson, AZ.
    Full Name:
    Fritz Ficke
    .
    Personally I think they are for the people who no longer need to be extrovert- a subtle Ferrari.[/QUOTE]



    That is in a nut shell what these cars are about.+1
     
  9. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,234
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    That and long high speed runs cross country...
     
  10. simon klein

    simon klein F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 25, 2009
    18,872
    North Qld
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    simon klein
    +365,remind me to notate my best(and first) 2500 mile blast going to(and returning from)
    the 07 FNR in Canberra one day.
    Hopefully that is to be replicated in March/April going to and returning from Victoria for the WH Lowe rally.
     
  11. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,234
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    Dr. Dumb Ass
    #234 judge4re, Jan 29, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This one was our 1200 mile honeymoon ride...
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  13. SlickMurphy

    SlickMurphy Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2004
    264
    Essex
    Full Name:
    David
    That white 400i looks to be the Rebirth Auto car. I know the bidding stopped at about $26k a few weeks back. Is that the car?

    David
     
  14. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,208
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
    david-

    yes that's 44121- As we've noticed in this thread- It's very hard to recover restoration costs on these cars right now- I wound up buying the vehicle for just a few thou more than the original unrestored asking price from motorcar Gallery in 08 - I walked away from it a couple of times but eventually the value was just too good to pass on.

    They sent me some new images of the exterior and interior and I think it's been done to a very high standard- and Ron Clark just did the valves recently including new seats and guides - that combined with the clutch, exhaust and fuel injection work gives me a reasonable indication that it's as sound a 5 speed as I am going to find.

    The ebay ad undersold the car dramatically- as is the case with most GOOD cars on ebay- the cars that are really hyped are usually dogs.
     
  15. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    25,532
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    Avvocato
    any blk/red for sale 365s ? or pics of one ?

    love that silver with red interior
     
  16. Glaverbel911

    Glaverbel911 Karting

    Feb 20, 2010
    78
    Neustadt ADW/Toronto
    Full Name:
    R. Groß
    You must have read my mind too.. I have never seen a black/red or blue/red combo either.. there has to be at least a few i would think. I'd love to see photos also.

    Robert.
     
  17. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,208
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
    Was a black/red Series 2 auto on craigslist a while ago- I believe it was northern Cal.
     
  18. RVL Saratoga

    RVL Saratoga Formula 3

    Aug 27, 2010
    2,421
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Full Name:
    Robert
    Jay, welcome to the white Ferrari club! I had never seen a 400/412 in white; looks spectacular.

    I broke down and put YoShields on the 328: they do look good on a white car.
     
  19. maxg765

    maxg765 Rookie

    Feb 8, 2011
    15
    Full Name:
    Max Gruenberg
    Hello Jay,

    I've been following your thread and quest for that right 400/412 since the beginning. It has been very educational for me.

    If you don't mind, I have some questions I would like to ask you with respect to one of the 412's you personally inspected. I don't see an option to send you a private message or email. I can be reached at maxg765 at gmail.com ,obviously removing the spaces and replacing the word "at" with the symbol @.

    Most importantly, very nice white and silver cats you've picked up. Enjoy them!

    Thank you in advance,

    Max
     

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