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What's an engine worth?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Schumi, Apr 26, 2019.

  1. Schumi

    Schumi Formula Junior
    Owner

    Jun 5, 2002
    690
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Daren
    I saw this ad on eBay and it got me wondering what a 400i engine is worth on its own given the value of our cars (as has been discussed recently in another thread).

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1982-Ferrari-400i-V12-engine/153447487538?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

    I would love to own a spare and, in a very optimistic thought, tear apart and rebuild it over time in the most perfect way - even though I have zero experience with even a simple mower engine.

    So, what's it worth?
     
  2. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    320
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    #2 raemin, Apr 26, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
    5 years ago I was offered a 412 engine for approx 5000€, I wish I bought it! As this is now the price scrapers are asking for one single cylinder head.

    So 10.000€ seems a good price for a complete 400i motor (that may or, may not, work), but I'd rather invest the same amount on individual parts from from a reputable source, as you do not know the real conditions of the engine until it is wide open or operated under significant load. By contrast individual parts can be checked immediately and eventually returned to sender.

    As a side note buying an engine for parts is not always a bargain, all the head I attempted to buy were slightly cracked, so the sellers that were intending to make a profit on buying the whole engine and reselling the individual parts, did not make such a good deal in the end.

    Finally I do not know if there is a real market for complete engine as it is always better to keep the original serial number, so one will always try to keep the original bloc rather than "swapping" the engine.
     
  3. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,202
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    As a point of reference, I needed a new timing chain and tensioner. There are lots of threads about changing the timing chain but the shop I took the car to had to pull the motor to change the tensioner since it is trapped by the front chain cover. Once this decision was made I told the shop to change all "external" o-rings, gaskets and engine mounts. Like all "exotic / high end" shops they found lots of other things that 'really need to be done'. In the end I rescued my car for $14K. If I knew what I know now, I would have done it myself even if it took 2 years to complete.
    Compare that to buying a 'spare' or replacement motor and giving it a thorough check / refurbishment before installing it.
    Ken
     
  4. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
    13,264
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    Its not worth $15K thats for sure. Maybe a 365 version because its the same as the GTC engine but not that anchor. I was offered one a month ago for a similar amount, less actually, might even be that one because its was through a friend of a friend yanking his 400i engine and box to put a SBC in it. Even today that conversion still happens which is a shame. Guess you cant fix stupid.

    If someone buys one out of convenience to do a rebuild then you'll always be out that $15K because you wont sell your original that you mothballed. So do you now rebuild your original and swap it again then sell the spare at a loss? Sounds like a mistake to me.
     
  5. simon klein

    simon klein F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 25, 2009
    14,735
    North Qld
    Full Name:
    simon klein
    It's only as good as the sum of all it's parts/
    Will the vendor,as I think he/she should,provide a leakdown and compression test?
    It'd be worth their while if they did.
     
  6. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 23, 2007
    4,733
    North Pole AK
    Also if you could see and hear it run it would add to the value.
     
  7. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    320
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    There was this "new" engine for sale near Paris that was advertised for 17.500€. "New old stock" often means "in need of new seals and rings", however this was as new as it could be. Do not know if it was finally sold but the ad remained for quite a long time. So $15.000 for a used engine seems a lot.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/new-engine-for-sale.586660/#post-146252328

    The 5000€ 412 engine I mentioned earlier has remained for sale for more than a year (maybe two), 5 years later I can say that whoever bought this engine made a bargain, so maybe that investing on a 10.000€ spare engine could make sense in the future? In the short term I'd rather invest in new/refurbished parts and fix my engine.
     
  8. Schumi

    Schumi Formula Junior
    Owner

    Jun 5, 2002
    690
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Daren
    As dumb and expensive as it sounds, and is, I'd like to have the engine displayed on a stand next to my car in the garage. It would remind me of how the Ferrari museum displays cars/engines. One could forget the guts, and just clean up the outside for display.
     
  9. Tojo

    Tojo Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2002
    337
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Tim
    I saw some photos of one of the original blocks for the 365P a couple of weeks ago. It's for sale and I believe the owner is asking in the region of 1M for it, and it's missing some parts and would need a full rebuild. Makes 15k for a standard 400 engine seem pretty reasonable
     
  10. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    10,162
    GMT -6
    Full Name:
    Dave
    I think the seller will be hard pressed to find anyone willing to part with anywhere near 15k for that engine.
     
    Ak Jim and Schumi like this.

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