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What is the value of a clock tag?

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by tx246, Mar 13, 2005.

  1. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    I am a little anal when it comes to knowing all about the Dino--don't know why --I must be compensating for something. The trim around the circular vents on my car has no trim. I am sure they are the original carpets. The NOS carpet sets I have have no trim around the vent holes. Did the factory do it both ways? We need to settle this issue so I can sleep again.
     
  2. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
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    I don't know Dinos as well as you do. If it came with and without the trim there would be no deduction.
     
  3. dinogts

    dinogts Formula 3
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    You bet there is a battery card -- White/Yellow/Blue Magneti-Marelli, with a cellophane slip case. Just be happy that you don't own an Austin-Healey and enter it in Concours because mine originally had a tar-top 6 Volt battery in a positive ground system.
     
  4. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    OK.

    So clearly, the crazed focus on tools has a reason, as do the books.

    Don't know about the trim. I'm gonna have to take a hard look at how to remove those particular pieces of carpet to repair them.

    All seem reasonable.

    What would be a major faux pas that would cause a more major deduction. What's the biggest possible point squeezer?

    DM
     
  5. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    The parts book does not show trim.

    My carpet, which was original to my '72 when I got it, had trim around the openings.

    I've seen kits both ways. I think the re-originals stuff does have trim, the California guys, um....World Upholstery? doesn't have the trim, and it's hard to tell what you'd get from Ferrari UK from their picture. Maybe Malcom will chime in.

    I'll snoop around at Reading and get a broader overview.

    DM
     
  6. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
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    Early Dino carpets were of the low-pile variety. I don't know if they had trim or not. My NOS carpet sets have no trim around the vents.
     
  7. billb

    billb Formula Junior
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    Interesting thread. There are two distinctly different camps when it comes to things like this, and both are commendable. As I'm an old fart, I had the fortune of growing up when muscle cars were everywhere and anyone could get one. When a guy showed up with a new Vette, Chevelle, whatever, with stock exhaust manifolds and air pollution equipment intact, the question was, "when are you gonnna get rid of all that junk?' Those first owners unknowingly determined which cars would become "drivers", and which would become time capsules. A lot of stuff was thrown in the trash, that today would command a high price. I think that those who choose to make their car look exactly as it did when delivered new are very important people, since guys like me see those cars and have a flashback, it's important history. However, the real world picture from back then is different. Nobody wanted the stuff, so it was often discarded. That doesn't mean we're knuckle draggers, it's just the way things were.

    I saw the Corvette owners go through the stage where every car should be made original or you had something wrong in your head. Then the Ferrari bunch got into it. That's why I now like Harleys. You're encouraged to improve on the original, and the wilder the better. The factory has made a fortune in selling a stock vehicle, then offering thousands of dollars worth of accessories to "make it your own". I'm not condoning crappy workmanship, or lose sight of the original intent of the machine, but it's kind of neat to do a little improving now and then, and not be scorned for doing so.
     
  8. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
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    What would be a major faux pas that would cause a more major deduction. What's the biggest possible point squeezer?

    For me it would be panel fit and polish. Have a body shop correct any obvious panel problems. Most can be fixed with just an adjustment, i.e. the doors. And make your car sparkle. I mean sparkle! If you don't know how I'll tell you.
     
  9. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
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    I saw the Corvette owners go through the stage where every car should be made original or you had something wrong in your head. Then the Ferrari bunch got into it. That's why I now like Harleys. You're encouraged to improve on the original, and the wilder the better. The factory has made a fortune in selling a stock vehicle, then offering thousands of dollars worth of accessories to "make it your own". I'm not condoning crappy workmanship, or lose sight of the original intent of the machine, but it's kind of neat to do a little improving now and then, and not be scorned for doing so.

    I think you have nailed it!! There are definately two camps. Don't follow the time worn tracks. Choose you own direction and enjoy your car whatever the track.
     
  10. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    #60 dm_n_stuff, Mar 20, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Bill.

    So, where's your trash can full of old parts? You'd be making a fortune on ebay right now if you had them.

    Pauls.

    There are things I will, and things I won't do to my car.

    I put a Dinoplex back in, so the ignition is back to original, but I won't reinstall all of the pollution stuff. It's very hard to find, and the car won't run as well as it does now.

    I think that stuff got torn off for a reason. My TR6 was the same way. No pollution gear left on it by the time I got to it, and really no good way to reinstall it, even if I had wanted to.

    It's too bad that the events of the times can't be built into the judging of today. Guys took the tools from their cars and tossed them in their toolbox. Now, the tools are gone. Same with manuals, etc. But to compete, you have to have this stuff.

    I'm going to take a reasoned approach. Concours is for learning, and for the sheer joy of being around the cars. PERIOD! Any attempt on my part to turn my car into a winner will diminish my enjoyment of the car for the other 360 days of the year, and that's not what it's in my garage for.

    Oh, and I'm pretty good at buffing, and the panel fit is excellent. My Porter and Cable plus the 17 million different waxes and polishesI have work pretty well. I'm not sure I'm gonna give the q-tips a big workout, though.

    DM.



    Dave M.
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  11. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
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    I'm going to take a reasoned approach. Concours is for learning, and for the sheer joy of being around the cars. PERIOD! Any attempt on my part to turn my car into a winner will diminish my enjoyment of the car for the other 360 days of the year, and that's not what it's in my garage for.


    I like your approach!!! Enjoy your Dino.
     
  12. teterman2004

    teterman2004 Karting

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    Don't forget how Concours judging benefits the fans, and sometimes the harsher the better. . .(!)

    --Where else can a chevette-owning-beer-swilling neighbor feel superior to the rich-guy-with-the-ferrari because there's some battery tag missing from his 99 point car?

    --Sometimes the best part of a concours is listening / watching the entrants fuss and fret over the teenie-weenie details, like the RADIO TAG. . . I LOVE IT!!!

    --Hey, it's a concours, isn't it? I personally would rather win the People's Choice award (just as long as there's no old modified vettes to compete with. . .:))
     
  13. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Guys you do realise that this clock tag was intended to be removed ... and that IMO if you drive around with this tag still hanging from the clock you are a fool.

    If you want it for orginality reasons, remove it and put it in the clove box. The purpose of the tag is for instructions and not a permanent thing that makes the car work, or even clock work.

    If I was a concours judge I would take points off for having the tag hanging from the clock ... this obviously shows the car is never driven or used. Which remember guys is what it is all about.

    Pete
     
  14. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

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    If I was a concours judge I would take points off for having the tag hanging from the clock ... this obviously shows the car is never driven or used. Which remember guys is what it is all about.

    Pete[/QUOTE]


    Pete have you ever collected anything or been around collectors? It's not for you to say how someone should collect. I don't pass judgment as to how individuals want to display their collection. To make it a foregone conclusion that a hang clock tagging Daytona or Dino is not a driver is nuts!
     
  15. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    when it comes to concours, i am not one to judge. however, if the theory of if it is there, it must mean the car isn't used is true, couldn't the same be said for owners manuals? after all, you are supposed to read them before operating the vehicle? it seems they could be discarded as well.

    in this thread, i was hoping to find out how common it is that these still exist. i know the majority of them have been discarded or lost. how many are still around and what is fair market value?
     
  16. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Well lets see. The first instruction in the manual or on the tag is to REMOVE the thing. Thus we have a person who obviously cannot follow the manufacturers instructions ... thus what about the rest of the car, has it ever been serviced? Many new cars come with plastic seat coverings ... have you got those too, etc. ... what about the original delivery oil?

    Now I absolutely know I am being extreme, but when you buy a condom do you leave it in it's wrapper ... I use the bloody thing.

    Owners manuals need to be stored in the car in case of a break down, etc. Like I said previously, if you want the clock tag (ie. you are a collector) you put it in the clove box ... you don't leave it dangling on the clock.

    Still each to their own, but IMO this is getting close to validating the colour of your nose hairs.
    Pete
     
  17. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    i agree, these things are for collectors and not really to be used on cars for judging. however, items such as these are rare. it makes on wonder what they are worth. clearly, no one in their right mind would worry about them. i am not in my right mind and it makes it fun to track them down. what other items (regardless of model) like these are out there?
     
  18. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    It appears that they do have a high value (earlier post on this thread) ... thus others must agree with you ;)

    I guess also as most would have been thrown away they are rare.
    Pete
     
  19. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
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    What is fair market value for this tag? Call Ken at http://www.ferrariliterature.com/. Last I heard he had a tag and was asking north of $1000.00. He had another that has already sold. Is it fair market value...well I guess it is as he is getting what he is asking. We can also discuss the true value of Beenie Babies. It's all the same Sh.... Ready to move on to a new topic?
     
  20. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Yup. Next Question.

    Why is it that concours judges for Ferrari have decided that interior and exterior changes, as long as they were available at the time the car was manufactured, are ok?

    Is it simply that finding out how a car came from the factory is too difficult? I know you can find out how my car was originally delivered fairly easily. All of that information is readily available from Ferrari. Perhaps carrying an originality cert. from Ferrari would solve that problem.

    Or is it that so many Ferraris have been repainted and re-bodied and re-interiored (if that's a word) that too many of the older cars would be eliminated from competition?

    Will an original car win over another car that has been changed if the owner can verify that his car is original, all other things being equal?

    I have about a million questions about the whole concours thing. Figured I'd learn most of my answers competing, but I can get a head start here.

    DM
     
  21. sjmst

    sjmst F1 Veteran
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    Looks exactly like the one that came with my 81 Fiat Spider (same clock), which, like the car, I still have. Think I saved it, too.
     
  22. billb

    billb Formula Junior
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    DM,
    You hit the nail on the head. Can't tell you how many times I've wished I saved all the stuff that came off. Did a resto on an original '69 L-88 car a while back, and the cost and trouble of finding all the smog stuff was incredible. If we'd only know then...
     
  23. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    Sounds like a good chunk of your major service for the Mondial just got paid for.
     
  24. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Bill.

    I guess that's why now, not so stupidly (unless you ask my wife), I stash every part I replace in a box, labeled, so that if that ever becomes an unobtainium part, I at least have a prototype to work from.

    I also grab up parts that are NLA, when I see them on ebay. Never know when I'm going to need that light switch for the trunk. Or bulb holder, or door panel clips, or whatever, that the dealers and parts guys don't seem to have.

    DM
     
  25. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    #75 dm_n_stuff, Mar 21, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's a tag I just picked up, for free!!! Well, almost. I bought a clock for a coupe of buchk, new, and the tag was still attached in the box.

    I'm gonna make a small desk clock out of a 308 clock, and the tag came with it.

    It should be an interesting little project.

    Anyone need the tag? PM me.

    DM
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