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What is the value of a clock tag?

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by tx246, Mar 13, 2005.

  1. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    Franklin E. Parker
    FYI, www.carclassic.biz is in the process of having a clock tag for a Boxer reproduced for me. I'm sure he will reproduce ones for Dinos, Daytonas, whatever if you provide him with a good photograph. Give Santiago a call...his number is on the web site.
     
  2. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Actually, if you guys can provide one original, I can make these for you all day and all night.

    I have the appropriate '60's vintage printing presses for this over in the antique corner at work, and can make them for a very reasonable cost.

    I would need an original, or a 300 dpi scan in the exact size it needs to be made in. However, an original would be best as we'd need to get the material correct, too.

    The rest is easy. Cost about $40-60 to make the letterpress printing plates and another $30-40 to run the tags 100 at a time. So, if you really want them, let me know and we'll whip some up. Grommets and all. You provide the string.

    I can even make them look old and cruddy if you'd like. :D

    DM
     
  3. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!
    Great advice Paul, but it also explains why I don't do concours. Some time back, Gerald Roush wrote an article about how judging was getting out of control. I don't remember exactly what he said, but the key was that you had to start with a beautiful car. If you start with an ulgy duckling, no amount of detailing or restoration expertise should win the day. In other words, it's the car dammit, not the restorer, not the detailer, and, yes, not the owner that counts.

    Personally, I think that the panel should include peer judges to take some of the pressure off the judges. As more and more money gets thrown at these cars, the egos tend to get bigger and bigger. Some of these folks really hate to lose.

    I also think that beauty should come before originiality. For example, a couple of years ago, I saw a yellow Dino at Barrett-Jackson where the owner had put yellow inserts into the black Daytona seats. Very, very, cool looking. But I'm sure that he would lose points at a concours because -- the factory never did it that way.

    But you're right. I'm a driver and not a lover. When I go to a concours, I just open my mind and enjoy the beauty. I'm glad that I'm not a player because this allows me to enjoy the cars. I just hate to see em get loaded up on the trailers at the end of the day. I'd rather go for a run.

    Dr "Different stokes for different folks" Who
     
  4. UroTrash

    UroTrash Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Dale, get one of these for your Bonnie:

    http://www.aerostich.com/product.php?productid=17073&cat=297&page=1

    (oh, get the large size)





    .
     
  5. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!
  6. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Don't they come with the real thing?

    Everything I've ever seen that was British leaked almost more oil than it held.

    "Seals" and "gaskets" are relative terms in England, I guess.

    DM
     
  7. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
    417
    Dm_n_stuff, I'm sorry I did not address your questions. If you want ask specific questions, ie 1), 2) 3) and I'll answer as best I can.
     
  8. UroTrash

    UroTrash Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Thats WHY you need one. Nobody'll believe the bike's real without it.
     
  9. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
    417
    "But you're right. I'm a driver and not a lover. When I go to a concours, I just open my mind and enjoy the beauty. I'm glad that I'm not a player because this allows me to enjoy the cars. I just hate to see em get loaded up on the trailers at the end of the day. I'd rather go for a run."

    I feel the same.
     
  10. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Just curious, but what do you think about peer judging?

    Dale
     
  11. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
    417
    dinogts, I agree that concours should be standardized.
     
  12. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
    417
    DM_n_stuff, I'm not angry, honest.
     
  13. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
    417
    "Just curious, but what do you think about peer judging?" I think it is a great idea!

    BTW, how do you copy script of someone elses text in grey and place it your response?
     
  14. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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    My clock tag cost me over $10,000 but the the guy threw in a nice 330 GTC as part of the deal so I guess I did OK!
    I can't find the tag but I'm pretty sure I know where the car is!!
    Bob Z.
     
  15. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    There was a crummy battery card that came with the cars?
    (sitting up straight now!)
     
  16. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Use the quote button in far right corner. You can then delete inside the quote marks.

    which btw are
    Dale
     
  17. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Yup, but it's only worth points if you have the original crummy battery :D
     
  18. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Pauls.

    Gotcha, I just was a little busy the last couple of days with some Dr. test stuff and running my eldest back to school, took me a day to ge tbackto the thread.

    I actually am curious about the following.

    1. Will lack of trim on my carpet around the front vents cost points? My carpet was installed neatly, but lacks the vinyl trim around the vents.
    2. How many points do you lose for not having a reflector, all of the books, or a pouch? Does having some of the books result in a different deduction thatn having none? And does having your actual original owner's manual, even if it's beat to hell count more than having a pristine replacement?
    3. If the paint is older, clean, well buffed, but showing three or four small (pinkie nail sized) rust bubbles, do they deduct for the bubbles?
    4. How about non-functional vent windows? I have one that has a problem, so it can't be opened.

    I can probably extrapolate some of my other answers from your answers to these questions.

    Dave
     
  19. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    I've got to run to the airport to fly to Seoul, I'll keep this short.

    As you get into the stratosphere (Pebble Beach, etc...), yes, stuff like this will be considered.

    Some have even said that to judge a challenge car as it came from the factory, it would be an unfinished car and a box of parts. I've even made the claim that if you want all original, you'd need every single bit that was on an F1 car during its racing career. Wings, panels, single use fasteners, brake pads, etc...

    Clearly, that will be an impossible standard.

    I know that it was brought up in 2000 to put together a complete "originality" document on how to judge these cars, not sure where that project is now.

    I may judge cars as a hobby from time to time, but I don't show the ones I own. I drive them. Quite happy with it that way.

    Find what makes you happy, and do it.

    Cheers,
    Erik
     
  20. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    Ah, the Westin Chosun. Nice bottle of Merlot and a cheese plate waiting in the room when I checked in.

    I'm in too good a mood to continue what I wanted to write. I'll have to revisit this thread later.

    Cheers!
     
  21. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    While I do concour my car on occasion for fun, I do so just to learn more about my car. I do try to keep my car original though. I like the originality concept of councours in that it preserves the car as made for future generations to see. Otherwise, for example, in 50 years no one would know what a early TR looked like as they would all have non-TRX wheels, two mirrors, a supercharger, Tubis and/or many othet aftermarket mods. Concours rules help keep some cars stock for future generations to see what the then antiquated Enzo, F430 and 612 really looked liked.
     
  22. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
    417
    Although there are inconsistencies with concours, I agree with you with its intent.
     
  23. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    Franklin E. Parker
  24. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
    417
    1) Yes, 1/2 point. The trim was there when it left the factory. Can you add the trim?

    2) 1 point. That is all judged in one group. You can use Marpars reproduction literature and not get a deduction. Same with a repro pouch. Many people do this until they can find the real thing. Condition does not matter.

    3)1/2-1 point for paint and polish.

    4) I doubt you will be asked to open it so 0 deuction.

    Rule of thumb, if it isn't pointed out to you it must be right. :)
     
  25. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!
    Nawww, never mind...

    BTW, at Cavallino this year, it was a bit surprising to see the judges actually get in and sit in some of the cars. I thought that this was a no-no.

    Dale
     

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