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What is the cheapest you can expect to pay for a "good" 599?

Discussion in '612/599' started by ibesuc, Dec 5, 2019.

  1. ibesuc

    ibesuc Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2009
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    Steve
    Good meaning: clean title/no accidents, less than 30,000 miles, not necessarily a book of service history, but everything must be working properly, any color combination.

    I am amazed to see these cars going for under $100k and think those prices would have to be rock bottom for a clean 599 (if they exist at all).
     
  2. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2013
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    Since you are in NY you might find a better deal now, in the spring maybe not so much. Keep checking all the internet sites daily.
     
  3. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
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    Where have you seen them for under 100k, wholesale? I would say what you're looking for would be 100-110k in a month or two when winter has settled in. However, big price difference between 10k and 30k miles.
     
  4. ibesuc

    ibesuc Formula Junior

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  5. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
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    I wouldn't personally touch those cars with 10 foot poles. I have a feeling they were owned by people who didn't take too much care of them.
     
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  6. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    Aug 25, 2005
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    This same style thread happens often in the 360 section. What everyone ignores is that the parts are expensive, labor costs are similar to other cars. In the 599 some parts can be very difficult to source. That means maintenance is EVERYTHING. So the car is running but they didn't do regular coolant changes. There is at least one thread on here that degraded coolant and cavitation caused the cylinder liner to be penetrated. THEN they are doing a full theardown of the engine. Maybe that is an extreme example but there is no doubt you need to shop for a car that is maintained.

    If you are shopping the lowest cost to save money you are throwing the dice. Maintenance costs aren't trivial. Even a good car will cost you $3000 - $5000 per year to maintain (at a minimum). Anything goes wrong and you are spending $8-10K. You have to be able to handle that reality.
     
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  7. brogenville

    brogenville Karting

    Apr 24, 2012
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    Robin
    Being a little unfair gents. The OP did say “good”; he’s not looking to buy a dog. Good is subjective term, so why not just say what you think the lowest is to buy what you would consider a “good 599”.
     
  8. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    I don't see that we wrote anything unfair. The two posted are not "Good" cars by most measures and we posted the realities of ownership (costs). Bottom fishing is fraught with risks. He is probably looking at $125K to 130K for a 2007 in decent condition and even then there will be drawbacks. A newer car or HGTE will run you $150K and potentially more. Those prices are a long ways from the posted $100K.
     
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  9. randkin

    randkin Formula 3

    Aug 2, 2015
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    Not sure I would put too much reliance on a "clean Carfax" most folks with an exotic carry fairly high deductibles. So I suspect many accidents under $10k may not get reported. Insurance rates on exotics are not cheap but not too bad if you have a good DMV report and no accidents. So, it often does not pay to report a $6k -$8k accident if your deductible is $5k or $7.5k and you will be charged with an accident for three years on your premiums. The service records on a higher mileage car along with the PPI would be far more interesting to me than a clean Carfax.

    Also, it seems that black cars don't command as good of resale price as other colors - or at least that has been my observation. Good if you want to buy a black car not so much if you are a seller.

    Neither of the above examples seems very compelling to me for other than the price. But as others have said elsewhere the purchase is the easy part the maintenance if you have to "catchup" from previously deferred maintenance can be a real eye opener $$$ wise.
     
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  10. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Carfax is a joke. So is shopping for a Ferrari at a Toyota dealer. Good cars with a caring owner who did decent service isn't selling the car at the corner car lot. You are setting yourself up for a very expensive and unhappy ownership experience. Don't know where you'll take it after you get it but don't bring it here. I hate pissed off customers and that is where this is going.

    The cheapest car is going to be the best most expensive out there and it will be in your garage and not at you mechanics.
     
  11. gstudent

    gstudent Karting

    Sep 12, 2006
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    Your comment is so broad! I own a 599HGTE and have never missed an annual service, did all the sticky buttons and never spared a penny on maintenance including 4K for ceramic coating. I have applied the same principals to both my 575 and 458 as well. Please don’t lump 599 owners as those that don’t maintain their cars.


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  12. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    He was referring to the two links the guy posted. They are for sale at a Toyota dealer and somewhere else. He wasn't lumping 599s all in that category.
     
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  13. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
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    What Skidkid above said. I actually was trying to be nice with my comment but if I'm being 100% honest, I'm willing to bet the one in Oakland was owned by a drug dealer and the one in Atlanta by a "rapper". Nothing wrong that with that but that clientele doesn't generally maintain these cars as they should, it's all just a show and not much passion.
     
  14. gstudent

    gstudent Karting

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    That’s a fact however same could be said for most exotics owned by less than upstanding folks that use them as nothing more than additional jewelry


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  15. RonH

    RonH Formula Junior
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    Yup. Here’s a picture of someone’s additional “jewelry” (fortunately not a Ferrari).

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  16. RonH

    RonH Formula Junior
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    I agree with a lot of the comments here. These two cars represent the bottom of the barrel and you can pay $30K in a nanosecond addressing any issues these cars have. For example, I was looking at a “cheap” 599 years ago and the PPI revealed the car had been tracked and the ceramic disc calipers had been fried. $36k to fix! I ran, not walked away. Also these particular cars are black, which as Randy said, drives down the price (though personally I love black and would take advantage of the black discount all day). If you go on Cargurus you will see these two cars there at the absolute bottom of the price range. There is also a similarly priced grey one with red interior. It is absolutely gorgeous but it has a salvage title. You will see that there are a lot of 599s for sale but most are $130k and up.

    So I think if you want a “good” one you should be looking closer to $130K. I watch Bring a Trailer a lot and it tends to be a good barometer of the bottom end of the market for reasonable cars (and not so reasonable cars). Here is the last 599 that sold there and you will note it is $128K. IMHO that was a far better “deal” than either of the cars you linked.

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-ferrari-599-gtb-6/
     
  17. ibesuc

    ibesuc Formula Junior

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    This isn't absolute. Don't disagree with all these posts, but then again if we were talking 550s or 355s, I'd agree with you all a bit more (on the cheapest Ferrari is the always most expensive argument).
     
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  18. ibesuc

    ibesuc Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2009
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    With all due respect, as unlike me you actually own a 599, hear me out here...

    Maintenance is everything for purposes of resale value (as is well-known throughout Ferrari culture), okay... but with modern Ferraris is it really everything for purposes of the long-term reliability of the car after say 30,000 miles of use? If the oil has never been changed - yes that is quite bad but...

    Below is an except from the Bringatrailer car posted by RonH which presumably has a satisfactory service history- https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-ferrari-599-gtb-6/

    "Service records from Boardwalk Ferrari in Plano, Texas date back to 2015. An annual fluid and filter service was completed in July 2019 at 7,380 miles, including new air and pollen filters, differential oil, and engine oil. The associated $2,400 invoice is posted in the gallery."

    First, so we have service records back to 2015. What about the 7 years prior to that? More than half of the car's life.

    Then, has anyone ever heard of a differential failing on one of these cars due to lack of fluid replacement? Air and pollen filters ever kill the engine? Seems like, as with my Mercedes, the engine oil and filter change is one of the few parts of the car's maintenance program that really matters. And you're telling me that not flushing the coolant is going to kill the engine? I'm sorry but the unfortunate repairs you all are talking about, in my opinion, are not necessarily directly tied to any given 599's maintenance history. Correlation but not causation? I had bought a brand new Escalade and with 30,000 miles the transmission started slipping. I think we are all stuck in the 90's Ferrari mindset with maintenance necessarily determining the life and performance of a used modern Ferrari. But nonetheless I don't wholeheartedly disagree with all the posts above.

    And 7400 miles vs 30,000 miles as well as color combination are totally different. Black/black is worth less than rosso/beige, fine and high miles means more use, fine.
     
  19. ibesuc

    ibesuc Formula Junior

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  20. ibesuc

    ibesuc Formula Junior

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    I do agree that a Carfax doesn't tell you much and for accidents, damage and paintwork, a good ppi is needed.
     
  21. ibesuc

    ibesuc Formula Junior

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    THIS is irrational.
     
  22. Natkingcolebasket69

    Rossa Subscribed

    That Toyota dealer as well as a Mazda in Marin county seem to share some connexions with Ferrari of San Francisco... not sure how but they seem to work together: I once took my car for a trade to
    The Mazda Marin county, entered all my info and then Ferrari of sf called me
    Saying they received my info for that trade so I assume there must be some connexions someway somehow...



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  23. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Steve- If you are the expert, why are you asking advice? Any Ferrari, all of which have wet liners, that does not have its coolant changed until 100,000 miles will undoubtedly see a hole in at least one of the liners. Anybody with any experience with Ferraris will tell you the biggest missing item in Ferrari's maintenance schedules is regular coolant changes. Even the latest ELC coolants with organic acid technology wear out their additives in 5 years. Not too many 599s with 100,000 miles in 5 years.

    Like Brian said, buy whatever you want, just do not take it to his shop or whine to us if it has problems because of lack of maintenance.
     
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  24. randkin

    randkin Formula 3

    Aug 2, 2015
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    Randy
    I have seen other Fcars at this “Oakland” Toyota dealer. Not sure what you know about Oakland but likely the only folks in town driving exotics are drug dealers. So let the buyer beware.:rolleyes:
     
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  25. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2011
    2,742
    Pittsburgh, PA
    What ever happened to the idea of seeing all records on the car before purchase? I have always been under the impression that this is paramount on a used Ferrari purchase more than any other car. If a car doesn't have service records I either won't consider it or offer a greatly reduced price if I like the car.
     

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