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Water pump weep hole

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by plip, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
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    Aug 29, 2008
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    David A.
    Replaced my heater hoses in the same way described above. Special fitting as described. Silicone really helps, don't be stingy. Installed a manual shut of valve after solenoid valve. Easy to reach for cool weather. Sometimes driving an a gremlin would open the valve and heat the interior. Also in one of the FCA notes: Installed an A/C compressor on/off switch so the blower lets in outside air. I leave my temp. control on full cold all the time. The TR climate control can be fussy sometimes!
     
  2. plip

    plip Karting

    Aug 25, 2003
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    Gianni Olivieri
    #27 plip, Oct 1, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
    Hi again,

    results of block pressure test are not comfortable at all...

    Tested at 20 PSI, started on 28.09.19 AM

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    Few hours later

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    In the afternoon

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    24 hrs later

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    48 hrs later
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    cleaned the wheep hole form the coolant and decided to let it sit another day at 19 PSI

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    After 24 hrs

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    Is 'only' few drops of coolant in 72 hrs but guess am in for a seal change....really would have liked to avoid it. First have to find out which seal type have in the car.....
     
  3. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,771
    If you continue without changing seals.... the worst that will happen is another engine out service.

    These water pump seals are a pain in the.... that said however, seals don’t get better with time and mileage.

    It will be soooooo much easier to do it now rather than later.
     
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  4. plip

    plip Karting

    Aug 25, 2003
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    Yeep....am at it now....reverting.
     
  5. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    #31 pshoejberg, Oct 1, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
    You might be lucky that the seal holds after a few minutes of running the engine but better bite the dust and change it now when you unlimited access. It takes less time than all that pressure testing and the cost is insignificant compared wit h other repair jobs on a old Ferrari. Remember to change the simmer ring oil seal as well. Spare parts cost is around 100$ incl. new bearings!

    Good luck!

    Peter
     
  6. plip

    plip Karting

    Aug 25, 2003
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    Hi again

    so the water pump is apart. Is normal to have Teflon band on the impeller threads ?

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    This is the status of the oil seal.....no comments

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    Seals
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    Now the one had in was a 2 pieces water seal, right ?

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    Given that my engine is number 00464, take it need to purchase water seal 152051 ? Am asking 'cause the measurements reported on Ricambi web site do not seem to match with the old seal.

    And yes, the water pump overhauling was definitely overdue!
     
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  7. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    No
     
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  8. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,771
    Perhaps somebody wrapped the threads with teflon tape and it got squished down????

    Rifledriver suggested that these seals are commonly used in multiple applications and as such, many variants have been used over the years. This includes the seals sold to us by our parts suppliers and bought by Ferrari for resale.

    Its a crapshoot.

    Just take your best shot on buying the right seal per your specific VIN number... Note that there are at least two impellers and two seal changes over the years. I suggest that you buy direct from Ferrari and hydrotest again after your install. Just be super careful not to crack the ceramic as it is installed.
     
  9. plip

    plip Karting

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    Probably, although do no see the purpose for doing that.
     
  10. plip

    plip Karting

    Aug 25, 2003
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    Gianni Olivieri
    2 Pieces seals as the one which was in the engine are not available anywhere (or at least was not able to source one). The only alternative is the PN 152051 1 piece seal which is supposed to be the replacement for the 2 pieces for my car. Since it is quite inexpensive will also order a PN 183759 in case the 152051 will leak after installation. s
     
  11. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,771
    Stupidity has no purpose...

     
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  12. plip

    plip Karting

    Aug 25, 2003
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    Hi

    water pump seals finally arrived. Could get hold of a 2 pieces seal 120948A as well as a 1 piece seal 152051.
    Left old 2 pieces, middle new 2 pieces, right 1 piece seals
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    Total thickness of the 2 piece is virtually the same as 1 piece

    2 Pieces

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    1 piece
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    The OD of the piece going into the impeller on 2 pieces seal is slightly bigger than the OD of the corresponding part on the 1 piece.

    Since the car had a 2 pieces installed will try first with the 2 pieces...let's hope will be water tight. Incidentally the 2 piece has no sealant on the cup whilst the 1 piece has. Shall put some Permatex Ultra Grey b4 installing ?

    Have turned on the lathe the below to mount the seal.

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    Do not quite understand how the seals do work, especially since the 2 pieces slides without efforts into the steel tube/spacer whilst the 1 piece seems an extremely tight fit....
     
  13. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,771
    #39 vincenzo, Oct 11, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
    Everything in yellow rotates as a single unit with the water pump shaft (impeller too). The non yellow sections don’t move and are mounted to the block.

    A one piece seal is shown. Press fit on to the “tube” before mounting to the engine block.

    I used permatex in the areas that rotate as a single unit. A very, very thin layer on the “tube” ID and OD as well as between the impeller face to seal area. Don’t push permatex into the seal itself! Likely no sealant is required at all - but I wanted extra insurance.

    Also permatex where the cup seats into the block. Again... very, very thin layer. Don’t want excess pushed into the space between the water and oil seal.

    The seal and impeller must all be installed in one continuous sequence - don’t give the permatex time to set before the final seating of the impeller.

    Nice tool - are you planning for a hammer insertion? Use care - the ceramic is SUPER fragile.

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  14. plip

    plip Karting

    Aug 25, 2003
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    Buongiorno Vincenzo,

    Tks yrs, always appreciated.

    Now the tube is supposed to be free to move on the shaft so no sealant between the tube and the shaft. Since on the 2 pieces the tube is not a press fit, ( in fact the seal ID is 17.5 mm whilst the OD of the tube is 16 mm see pic) take it no sealant there as well. No sealant on the impeller either since the second ceramic piece is a press fit into the impeller recess. So really the only place to put a small amount of sealant is between the cup and the block, although the original seal had no sign of any sealant there (and nowhere else) when removed.

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    As to the 'intruder' yes plan to hammer the seal in place. Actually the ceramic does not touch the intruder at all which is only working on the cup (see pic)

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    The oil seal is already in place (also here turned on the lathe a tailor made 'intruder'), the weep hole is free so really is time for the water seal to go in....wish me luck.
     
  15. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,771
    Presumably your two piece seal is ‘cocked over’ due to the spring’s spiral wind.

    If so, be aware and use caution as you drive it in. If it is cocked over, it will bind the ceramic as it is driven home. Hopefully your new tool will compress the spring ‘flat’ before it contacts the seal’s base. This will minimize the binding.... but may be hard on the two piece seal’s ceramic surface.

    These seals are a PIA! Buona Fortuna!


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  16. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Dec 9, 2003
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    20psi seems like a very high pressure to check the weep hole with. I did 10 psi or less, and no issues.
     
  17. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    you may test 2 times. one with low pressure ( about 8-10 psi ) and one with higher pressure ( 18 - 20 psi )
     
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  18. plip

    plip Karting

    Aug 25, 2003
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    #44 plip, Oct 30, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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