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Vintage 1950s, 60s vs Supercars

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by 275GTBSaran, May 6, 2017.

  1. 275GTBSaran

    275GTBSaran Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2012
    966
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Le Monde Edmond
  2. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2013
    397
    NYC/CT
    "The second and third factors are exceedingly important too. Collectors today want to get in their cars and drive them. As my Instagram friend and collector (hennabav) noted, ‘Time has become ever more important. People simply want to live and that means just getting in a driving them.’ I think he on to something."

    I am not so sure about that. If driving is so important why does the vast majority of the supercars end up having very low mileage? Collectors seeks and pay up for low mile cars, and once acqure them they tend to keep them that way. I actually think older cars end up being used more. Great read, otherwise. Thanks for posting it.
     
  3. 275GTBSaran

    275GTBSaran Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2012
    966
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Le Monde Edmond
    You make a very good point indeed. That is true. But equally I see many collectors buy supers and use them them too. However percentage wise you might be right - more drive them very selectively in order not to put to much km or mileage which is a shame...
     
  4. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,720
    Amsterdam
    I also have the feeling that with the older cars miles are less of a problem for both owners and the cars themselves. Plenty of reasons, tech parts are more standardised and therefore less of a problem, usually these cars are built more robust and perhaps one of the biggest, miles are very seldomly properly documented so combined with their rarity, the factor condition becomes more prevalent than mileage. Imho that is a good thing.
     
  5. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
    2,969
    USA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    I've been patiently waiting in the hopes that some of the "more" affordable late 60's/70's cars that went stratospheric a while back would come back down to Earth, and that seems to be happening.

    I think your points 1,2, and 3 are the most relevant here. As you say, demographics and desire related to what was cool when that age group was young are the big issue. However, if I think about it, I personally buck this trend. I'm now 42. As a boy, my Dad owned some modern Ferrari's, and my current car definitely has a "sentimental/fond memory" aspect to it. However, if I could own several Ferrari's, they'd either be the older cars my fathers friends had & collected, or much newer cars. Personally, I'd love any of the 60's/70's 365 cars (QM, Daytona, c/4) or maybe a 246GT. But I'm also attracted to the 458, the 456, and the 599. I have zero interest in an F40, F50, Enzo, or LaFerrari. One, I think they're ugly (totally subjective). Two, you can use so little of the car. What's the fun in that? You can redline a 275 GTB or a Daytona and live to tell the tale. But how many have actually maxed out their Enzo? Mostly I see people quickly accelerate down a residential street and then turn around and come back. Ok, so the g force rush might be greater in a 0-60 leap, but so what? I'd rather push my 308 engine for two hours of mountain driving, and actually feel the road through the wheel than pay millions for the equivalent of a 60 second amusement park ride.

    That of course is from a usability point of view. Collecting for investment is a different story that I know little about with newer cars. But I just don't see the new super cars as remotely usable in real life. Sure, a 365 GTB/4 has heavy steering and you have to warm it up for 30 minutes before you gun it, but at least you CAN gun it. Gun an Enzo like you would a Daytona and you're likely to kill yourself and a few others while you're at it.
     
  6. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

    Feb 8, 2005
    412
    West Coast USA
    Demographics will still support the classic vintage cars. My observation is that we start out with our high school fantasy car. Those more passionate become educated about history and start purchasing even older cars as we understand their significance. There is a reason that perhaps the most valuable cars in the world - more so than a GTO - are pre war Alfas like the 2.9's. The lesser cars will be forgotten.

    GTO's for example will always be cherished more than any contemporary Ferrari no matter the demographic.
     
  7. 635CSI

    635CSI Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 26, 2013
    1,771
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    A couple of very minor points:

    My 60's cars whilst not exactly more reliable than the 90's Ferrari I have owned are far cheaper to fix and maintain. No stupid bills for ageing pieces of electronic "tech", no oddly de-laminating interior parts, less leaks, less warning lights.

    Secondly, here in London, our Labour Party Mayor (in his wisdom) has lumped modern classics in with dirty diesels as the "most polluting cars". Thus he is introducing a levy of, I think, £30 per day to drive them (that will be 24/7 and comes on top of the weekday congestion charge). Whilst this may not bother your 288 GTO owner it will really hurt your average Joe struggling to keep a beloved 90's 911 on the road. This new tax doesn't apply to older vehicles which have historic license status.
     
  8. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
    2,969
    USA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Wow! 11,000 pounds a year in pollution tax!?!?

    Is that just charged as one lump sum when you re-register your car? Or is there some way of "paying per use".

    Either way, ouch. I'm not against some type of tax on gas guzzlers, but that's a brutal hit.
     
  9. whturner

    whturner Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2003
    313
    Western Pennsylvania
    Full Name:
    Warren Turner
    "The second and third factors are exceedingly important too. Collectors today want to get in their cars and drive them. As my Instagram friend and collector (hennabav) noted, ‘Time has become ever more important. People simply want to live and that means just getting in a driving them.’ I think he on to something."

    I agree! Just returned from a trip to and from Pittsburgh to The Radcliffe/Yang event. My car is a driver, and the event is somewhat of a social event on a car theme (look it up). We had no qualms in getting in the car, throwing our bags in the trunk, and putting about 500 hundred miles on it over the weekend. I don't consider a car you can't get in and drive all that desirable.

    Cheers
    Warren
     
  10. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    9,202
  11. Birel

    Birel Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 12, 2005
    1,542
    Brisbane
    Full Name:
    Andrew Turner
    A much appreciated viewpoint.

    Personally, I got a bit fed up with my old cars a few years ago and having sold them I'm living in big regret. I bought a modern 911, supremely efficient and proficient. But mileage kills them in the market so I made my outings only on special days. OK, so not always did I remember to put the trickle charger on so the flat batteries were my fault. But the palaver to open the electric front hood release so you can get to the flat battery drove me nuts. The car was a bit boring to drive and it just had to go.
    The Oldtimer market has come back significantly since 2014, but its a long way to go before I can get back in for anything like 2011 prices when I sold. I long for that "analog" feel of my old 246GT, the aural pleasure.......ahhh.
    I think the old cars will always have a certain mystique which will keep them going, just as watch collectors salivate over a tourbillion movement whilst acknowledging the brilliance of an Apple watch.

    AT.
     
  12. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    9,202
    Thanks for your input. Its interesting because I've had the exact same discussion with several car guy friends regarding cars and fine wrist watches. I think there will be ebbs and flows to the market so you might well find yourself back in the position to buy one of these cars. I've made the same "mistake" as you with selling something with character but maybe I got tired of some of the requirements to own it... only to regret it. When these are your regrets, you know things in general have been good for you. Those little Dinos are very cool cars. Everyone loves them. I hope one day you will get it back!
     
  13. Birel

    Birel Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 12, 2005
    1,542
    Brisbane
    Full Name:
    Andrew Turner
    Thanks for saying that. When my day comes I will let you all know !!
     
  14. Simon1965

    Simon1965 Karting

    Feb 8, 2011
    245
    HKSAR
    Full Name:
    Simon
    I own a 65 v12 (330gt). and a 97 v12 (550). Both are very different but if I was forced to sell one it would be the the modern one As others have said the "modern" stuff costs an arm and a leg when it goes wrong (I've done the fuel pumps in the fuel tank the AC The electrics - never ending stuff that can go wrong with a well used 550 as a daily driver). While the 330 is almost always fixable at the side of the road and appears far less temperamental

    I don't plan to sell either as in some ways I feel by owning both I have a hedge against values moving in the wrong direction and also it's fun to compare the evolution between the two
     

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