veyron has been driven by autobild german car magazine / nice pictures

Nope, I don't hate the Veyron.
I just think this will tank like any other Supercar in the 80's such as the Vector, Cizeta Moroder V16, etc.

IMHO it just misses the appeal in my eyes big time.
I'm not defending F1 because of its top speed but rather the packaging, weight, natural aspirated engine, etc. Nobody in their right mind would want to drive F1 on the autobahn an 391 km/h and Mclaren never boast on top speed. They tested the top speed much later after the preliminary magazine tests. Read the book DRIVING AMBITION by Doug Nye and you'll understand more.

Any car with Turbos cannot be compared with NA engines, especially on the track. The throttle response is just not there. Take the CL-600 TT for example, nice only on Autobahn straights but won't work on country roads. of course this is an extreme example but the CL-600 TT is about the same 2-tonne weight as a Veyron and has a big motor mit turbos.

I too love other exotics. The CGT is nice because it is driver oriented, The Enzo (although not the F1 gearbox also not the looks), F50, Diablo SE, SV, etc. I even like the Countach VERY MUCH. The EB110 SS was much better IMHO than the Veyron. Given the $1.6 disposable income on cars I would buy an EB 110 and/or other exotics rather than the Veyron.

Veyron, unfortunately, misses the mark. It may win the Battle, but it lost the War.

PS
We'll see how the sales will turnout. Even Maybach is having trouble selling $300k cars. The air is much thinner up there than they previously thought. Pity that VW will mostly lose money on this project. I don't wanna know how much they spent on R&D after years of delays and prolonged testing. Better use the money to build other things.

 

No problemo.
Each person has their own opinion on looks, power, etc.
It's nice having a car discussion with you.

I too love the Vector and Cizeta back then.

 

He Said, She Said

 

No... He told me.

Also, two other McLaren Cars employees shared the same story with me prior to my meeting with Gordon.

You seem to be the only "she" in this discussion.

>8^)
ER

 

I love my "TANKED SUPERCAR"
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3. Who said it was intended to be a SPORT CAR ??? It is a luxury classy comfortable quiet coupe;( have you seen it's interior)

5. Weight is important only for marques which can't design engines LOL.

P.S. If it's so easy to produce en engine capable of more than 1000 H.P.
why nobody has tried it before?

 

I'm glad it's somebody's ego trip

the biggest advances in humankind history had been pursuits of some crazy men ego trips.

 

Viper, Supra, and Skyline tuners have been doing it for years. *yawn*

 

How many of you:

A) Like it

AND

B) Can write a check that won't bounce?

 

That's why those damn F1 cars are so light, right?

You're out of your mind to suggest that weight isn't important if you've got a high hp engine, and it also shows a lack of understanding in regards to the subject matter.

An engine should be designed for a car, not the other way around (as is the case with the Veyron).

C.

 

...Supras, Skylines...blah blah blah


seems like somebody can't tell the difference between "producing" & "tuning modifing" an engine
then about weight : we have F1 and luxury car in the same sentence Wow!

 

Yes and yes.

 

Me too 1) YES & 2) YES but what amount of check are we talking about?

 

F40. Someone who can't control a cars power curve based on the widely accepted principles of forced induction shouldn't be making track comparisons.

I seem to recall other turbo sports cars and a period in Formula 1 where the cars were actually too fast for their own good and beyond human control. In that respect, and in that one only, you are correct.

The irony is this is coming from someone with biturbo in their handle?

Sunny

 

The 1990 Alpina B10 Bi-Turbo is strictly a luxury high-speed autobahn cruiser. For track or mountain pass drive an E34 M5 3.8 feels more 'alive'.

Try coming out of a corner in a turbo car, esp with a higher boost. Compare that with an na engine.

 

Sounds like overcoming traction and having some fun, something possible on n/a cars as well.

My point is, you paint with a broad brush dismissing turbo cars as being inferior to n/a engines and fail to make comparisons or fill in your own experiences regarding both.

What kind of response did you expect? LOL!

Sunny

 

My bad.

I was referring to a Veyron as a sportscar. I always assume 2-door, 2-seater exotics as sportscar.

For a luxury GT or a Sedan a turbo engine is nice, but if one wants to really feel the engine and doing performance driving (usually involving braking into a coner, and throttling back up, and mostly done in a sportsedan/2-door sportcar) then the na engine is more fun.

Take the S-600 TT with nearly 500hp, compare that to an old E30 M3.
Which has more power, better acceleration, better NVH (Noise Vibration n Harshness) higher top speed, etc. The 600 win hands down. Which one is the most fun to drive? Which one do you want to drive interstate? I bet these two questions have two different answers.

For the MBZ I think they take the right approach by adding kompressor/turbo to their higher-end cars because their marketing dept says their customer base needs them. They even put Automatic 'box in their "sport" models.
BMW Motorsport, on the other hand, takes a different approach in creating their M3s and M5s also largely based on their customer base.
Take a loot at the current Alpina B5 (E60) and the E60 M5. Same chassis basis, comparably equal HP with the Alpina has tons more torque and an auto-box, both different animals.

Bugatti is lost their direction.

They didn't have a strong self identity. Their marque was dead decades ago, back in the 90s for a while and then dead again. They are IMHO lost. A sport car ala Ferrari or manufacturer or a luxury cars like their Royale? Unfortunaltely MBZ is already (unsuccessfully) try to take a piece of that pie with the Maybach. Bugatti decided to be both. IMHO that is not a good sign.

If I were the CEO of Bugatti I think it is time to re-establish their Vision and Mission statement. Do a brainstorm meeting. Decide first what your customer base / target market is. Ferrari owners? Lambos? or trying to compete in the extremely thin market of Zonda?

With hundreds of $$$ VW money spent I think they better place a product with a $500-$750k price, or maybe fight the F-cars in the $350-$500k range, but that would also mean fighting with L-cars owned by Audi. Creating product $1.5 million or about 2xprice of a Zonda is a waste of money and time.

Supercar makers have come and go in the 80s and 90s. Most of em are just one-hit-wonders. Let's just hope this isn't one of them.

Cheers,
Taffy

 

Taffy, thanks for elaborating.

The Veyron is very similiar to the Ford GT. The mission statement overall was... because they could. It was time to do something with the company. Only in Bugatti's case, its an issue of having too much funding and too many clashing design goals over one car.

Regarding the S600 biturbo and the E30 M3 comparison, the one that is the most fun to drive is the one I can drive most often in both conditions.

I've had my share of encounters with the more sporty cars you describe and at the end of the day, I had the most comfortable ride home out of all of them for the last 2 years running. Its slow enough to be fun driving hard and keep me out of trouble. I'm sliding the tail out to maintain exit speeds, rowing through gears, and the sports cars that are chasing me one gear higher are, arguably, having less fun than I am since I'm closer to the edge. In fact, the C5 and Z06 owners came up at the top of the mountain to compliment me on the pace I set because they were breaking traction trying to keep up. They're n/a... the turbo cars didn't suffer any more or less than they did.

My car is driven with purpose. Its true, its n/a. Its a sport luxury barge. It weighs 4000lbs, thats no big secret. But its well balanced, has a decent supply of torque, with a very long stroke motor. The things I could do if it WAS forced induction and the XJR model would be greater. The sacrifice? Nothing 'cept fuel economy and more expensive tires.

My argument for the Veyron is if it was driven in anger in a highway or a canyon environment, it would almost be considered cheating. Thats its purpose. Not track times.

Its time for my McLaren comparison. On the track, its received a fair amount of criticism. It wasn't designed to be a sports car and a track car, but a car that can do a bit of everything, carry 3, is light, and incredibly fast.

The Veyron is also not being designed as a sports car and a track car, but also a car that can do a bit of everything within the limit of VW's potential - the best that was for sale.

The peaky power curve is really an assumption on our parts. The V16 is going to be a slightly longer stroke motor than say a ///M or Ferrari engine. If done correctly, the boost is going to always be mildly present. I wouldn't put my foot down on a 1000hp monster let alone a 500hp Viper unless the conditions were ideal.

The choice for me is sport luxury. The choice for Veyron owners is sport luxury that also aims to be the fastest accelerating factory production car ever made.

Will you bash on the Blue Devil because it will be forced induction?

Driving a car like the Veyron is a different kind of thrill, neither better or worse than an S600 biturbo or an E30 M3.

I have accepted the Veyron as a halo car and a design nightmare. If it ever makes it into production, it will be against great odds. I admire it, but I would never own it.

Respectfully,
Sunny
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... for those concerned about BUGATTI direction and marketing:

they are developing an "entry level" $300 000 usd Bugatti
just like VW did with Lamborghini: first the flagship Murcielago and then the entry level Gallardo was added to it's line up

and here comes the BOMB ! the VEYRON engine will be used in a supercar by Lamborghini which probably will be called : MIURA and it will carry far more than 1000 H.P. (how does that sound Enzo & Zonda worshippers)
then you can throw your critics since it will be a TRUE sports car leaving Bugatti as a classic luxury fast tourer.

VOLKSWAGEN RULES !

 

New Veyron pics!
http://www.exoticcarsite.com/pages/bugatti-veyron-2005.htm

 

All still speculation.

With the monster delay of the Veyron, a cheaper model is nothing more than a pipe dream at this moment.

Murcielago replacement comes in 2010, if the V(W)16 Lamborghini happens, it will be before then.

 

*Raises hand*

 

Nice!

 

Hello,

if anybody's interested. Here's a photo of the hut, where the Veyrons are manufactured.
Last Saturday I decided to make a short trip to Molsheim, which is around 25 mls. distant from my hometown.
On Saturday the dealer and customer presentation took place.
Sorry, no pictures of the Veyron, because access to the factory area was not permitted for the public.
Nevertheless while approaching the small town suddenly 4 preproduction Veyrons appeared. I was grasping my digicam but was too slow while driving around a traffic circle.
An impressive car and like so often looking so much different, than on any photos.
I wonder why they don't attend the most important german and european car show in Frankfurt this month ( IAA ), but instead travel to the Tokyo Motor Show.

Best Regards from Germany

Martin
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