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Discussion in 'F1' started by ginoBBi512, Mar 28, 2021.
"Had it"...past tense.
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I would have been very happy to see Alonzo and Vettel do better. I wished that for Michael and for Kubica. But the numbers are the numbers. When your day is over, it is over. Time to leave gracefully.
I get it. But who's to say they can't access "it" again especially with the cars changing as much as they are. It's not like a piece of toilet paper
After considerable (ahem) consideration: I come to the conclusion that Vettel never had it.
What Vettel had was a car that was perfectly suited to his driving style.
When he did not, he goes nowhere.
That is not the mark of someone who "has it".
I suspect it has to be addicting to be part of the F1 show. I bet after so many years immersed in the F1 Paddock -with all the on and off track thrills that it entails - they just want to continue to be part of it, regardless of whether they are fighting for wins or podiums.
Like this scene from Heat:
DAMON HILL: VETTEL IS GETTING BEATEN TO A PULP
Sebastian Vettel’s fall from grace as a top of the line Formula 1 driver took another massive blow with his below-par debut for Aston Martin at the 2021 season-opening Bahrain Grand Prix weekend.
VETTEL: I DON’T FEEL AT HOME IN THE CAR
The change from Red to Green had absolutely no impact on Sebastian Vettel, in fact, he was alarmingly bad at the 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix, arguably the worst drive of the night at the season-opener.
Some would consider that the modern F1 cars are exactly like a piece of toilet paper...compared to the past. At a certain point, a driver just loses it. Their right foot gets a little light on the pedal when it should be mashing it to the floor. They might want to go faster, they might claim they need more time in the car, they might claim the car was designed around them, they might claim the isn't right for the tires they have...etc., etc., etc. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...they just don't have it anymore. Compare Alonzo and Vettel to George Russell and his one race with almost no practice in a Mercedes. He plain didn't fit in the car, had to wear and drive with shoes that were too small...etc. George Russell desperately wants it because he's never had it. Alonzo and Vettel have had it, and no longer really truly want it.
I actually think and of course can be 100% wrong and by no mean is this absolute...
But with the rules changing and the aero etc...
You are a driver that fits the car and it's characteristics or your not.
Drivers don't seem to be able to develop cars like they used to. It seems the rules shape the car... The car is either fast or not... And a driver who's style matches is the winning combo.
So having what it takes... Is really having the car that fits your style.
Of course this is my opinion. .any will disagree and that's fine
Not sure how you can lump Alonso into this. Vettel has been providing plenty of evidence to make your point, but not so with Alonso. This past weekend he was driving very well, and getting the most out of the car given his recent time in it. Alonso has always been 100% until the car gives out.
Alonso's driving isn't in doubt, and there is still more to come.
It's his toxic attitude that has been the problem.
The proof is in the pudding. When was Alonzo's last championship?
Couple of points:
1. Vettel IS a good driver, but has not been able to adapt to life outside Red Bull. granted he had the best machinery when he was winning, but he also had some strong competition as well, and beat them... not always nicely, but he beat them.
2. I think the comment about 75% of the drivers in F-1 should not be there - is pretty gutsy... most of these guys can beat anyone anywhere in any other car.. .they can be ultimately competitive at the drop of the hat.. including Stroll... its hard to be at the top. Are there great drivers that never made it to F-1 yes, but if you are in F-1 you have "it" way more than others. part of "it" is driving skill. flat out. No matter how much money you get - you don't just show up and drive in F-1. its pretty ruthless to get there regardless of $$ you have.
3. AM for Vettle is likely his last stop, and I would not be surprised if he's out at the end of this year - unless miracles happen. Vettle got worn down by Ferrari... and it showed. combo that with Hamilton cleaning his clock... he's done with F-1 even if he cant admit it on his own.
4. Alonso is just toxic, a warped sense of his skills, and he's for some reason got peoples attention. can he be fast? yes, but at what cost and to whom.
Alonso's issues is his dominance of a team, and then not taking responsibility for things when they go bad.... Ala Ferrari and McLaren. He's not able to settle down and work with engineering on what has to happen, he's just able to apply verbal pressure. when he was at Renault - they had the best car... and could have been cheating - who knows, but he made the best use of it.... so outside the best car - I don't think he has that great of a talent...
I think the problem is the pressure, and the expectation. Ferrari just expected him to be able to win and be the Team Leader... but I don't think he knows how. at RedBull they did it for him. at Ferrari and AM, don't think there is the same support system. I agree with Berger.
Im not so sure that these F1 drivers can beat anyone, anywhere . I would love to see Vettel and Alonso go to the World Rally Championship. Alonso has already proven himself in sports cars. Rally is the series that really shows who are the best drivers in the world, its that simple.
No, it's not that simple.
Rallying and F1 are 2 different disciplines of motor racing, each very specialized.
Thank you for your reply, cmon, are you kidding, F1 is karting on steroids, matter if fact, its now 90 % car, 10 % driver, with all do respect, there is no comparison. Maybe when Senna was driving, and even then, WRC is home to the best drivers in the world , specialized or not, whatever that means . I do know that one has to be superior in ones athletic stamina and strength in F1, but these F1 pilots are like race jockeys, they weigh little, so the G Forces are at work against featherweights. When it comes to driving skill, WRC is the top , its that simple. My Lord, one has to watch one car , one time to see the difference between the two. F1 , like most on here agree, has become a farce.
People are already saying Vettel won't make it through the season.
After 1 race of a 23 race season.
Well, after the preseason, not making it out of Q1, and rather dodgy driving in the race including an accident he first blamed on the other guy, then apologized when shown the evidence.
I agree its a long season but you have to wonder if Stroll cleans his clock how long AM will see him as an asset. Every point lost is a lot of money.
The current WRC car generation is absolutely insane. I don’t understand why there isn’t more enthusiasm for these drivers and this championship?
The rallies don't lend themselves to being televised live. They are best seen on YouTube bits and pieces. And for spectators, there are zero comforts...only the hardcore fans will stand in the middle of nowhere, in the rain or dust, and almost get killed by cars flying out of control. But I love watching it on YouTube.
We are rather lucky in France with special coverage by Canal Plus ( live power stage etc).
I agree, Im not sure why myself,
Also, you can watch a whole race, but you cannot watch a whole rally, as the stages are held in different locations.
You would be lucky to see one stage, and only from one position which means restricted view.
Since the cars run one at the time, there is not direct wheel-to-wheel competition in rally, and it's very difficult to assess who's leading, etc ...
They require different skills: F1 is about racecraft, rallying is more about improvisation, IMO.
That's why I don't think one can compare them.