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V-12 Maintenance

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Highmiler, Dec 13, 2010.

  1. Highmiler

    Highmiler Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2010
    414
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Hello Again,

    I have read a lot about the importance of maintaining the 400i V-12. Being newly Ferrari-ed, and not wanting to learn the hard way which of the processes listed in the Owner's Manual and Shop Manual are critical, would anyone care to point out the really important items?

    The car is an '83, has an honest 41,000 KM on it and suffers mostly from not being driven. I put 650 miles on it bringing it home and it currently runs like a watch.

    This car lives in the middle of Missouri so if something needs doing I'll have to learn how to do it. Perhaps there is a competent independent mechanic closer than Dallas or Chicago?
    Thanks in advance,

    Greg
     
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  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    33,614
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Greg- Look in the locality forum. Several recommendations for St Louis area, including GLB and St Louis Maserati.

    Really important items? You mean like oil, transmission oil/fluid, brake fluid, valve adjustments? They last longer if you follow the maintenance schedule.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  4. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 23, 2007
    5,527
    North Pole AK
    I would be willing to bet that the most overlooked thing on your car right now is the valve adjustment.
     
  5. Highmiler

    Highmiler Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2010
    414
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Thanks for your reply.

    The routine common sense stuff is just that: common sense.

    I guess I was wondering more about chain adjustments, valve clearance and such. I have never had an OHC engine. My 356 Porsche is fussy about valve adjustment but, once adjusted, they stay adjusted for a long time.

    I picked Fogbound as a name because it fits my experience with Ferrari. Somehow I have arrived at my current age with no idea that OHC engines even need valve adjustments.
    So I am playing catch up.

    Thanks again,

    Greg
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    33,614
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Greg- The chain is really easy to adjust, whistle while you work (read the manual and you will see what I mean, tighten until it whistles and then back off). The valves are a bit more work and require a few extra shims if any are out of tolerance. Not acceptable to grind them to decrease thickness. Plus it means changing gaskets.

    You will have fun except getting to the distributors.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
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  8. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    27,169
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Which V12 do you have? If it is the 4 cam 400 style motor it is due for a very needed cam chain replacement at 40,000km. And there is a tensioner issue with them as well so it needs to be determined what you have.
     
  9. Highmiler

    Highmiler Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2010
    414
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Bryan,
    The book says the engine is a 4823.1 cc, Type F 101 sporting 8.8 to 1 compression.
    Are there any symptoms to look for that would suggest needed work?
    All areas of the country have their own price structures but what do you think would be the range for valve adjustment only and for cam chain only?
    Greg
     
  10. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    27,169
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Take it to someone in your area.

    I am in the most expensive market in the country. No point in me giving you a price.
     
  11. Highmiler

    Highmiler Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2010
    414
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Greg
    You are right.
    I should not have asked.
    Greg
     
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  13. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,360
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Greg
    As indicated above, do the chain tension yourself. I bought a stubby 13/16" open end to work on the lock nut. Follow the procedure and if it adjusts correctly with sufficient extra length on the adjuster bolt then you chain and adjuster are okay. 40K KM is not enough for a new chain. If you have trouble to adjust, then the tensioner issues mentioned above may be an issue and this will need professional help.

    Check your electrical panel for burned contacts on the plastic plugs! The fuel pumps are the most likely problem. Electrical issues will be your biggest frustration.
    Ken
     
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  14. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    27,169
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall



    The Ferrari manual states a new chain at 40k KM. It is for good reason. It is the longest chain in any Ferrari motor. At 40k it is so stretched out the cams have become very retarded and the chain tensioner is no longer able to tension correctly.

    It is not my opinion.
     
  15. Highmiler

    Highmiler Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2010
    414
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Thanks Ken,

    I'll do it.

    The more I read about these cars the more I realize what a miracle it is to have bought an intact, happily running, 400i with minor age related ailments. I owe this miracle to my friend, its pervious owner.

    So far the biggest challenge has been to get rid of the gas smell in the trunk after X years of a failed sender gasket leaking fuel onto the fiber glass trunk bottom. The smell is now gone.

    The question that remains is whether these V-12s tell you, somehow, that they need attention.

    Greg
     
  16. Dodici Cilindri

    Dodici Cilindri Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2006
    545
    Great Plains
    For service you also have Chris Parr in Kansas City and Vince Hill in Joplin. Address's and phone numbers can be found in Ferrari Chat.
     
  17. Highmiler

    Highmiler Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2010
    414
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Thanks for the leads.
    Greg
     
  18. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 3, 2006
    1,870
    Tucson, AZ.
    Full Name:
    Fritz Ficke
    #15 Fritz Ficke, Dec 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    My take is you do nothing but change the oil and air filters, maybe put a little tension on the timing chain tensioner spring and general look around but really nothing between 40,000 engine out service.
    Not believing the factors suggestion of 40,000 KM I went 62,000 miles and pulled the engine on mine because I had oil in the water and had tried re torquing heads and partial sealing of the water pump. The oil in the water turned out to be the o -rings on oil passage tubes under the oil filters, could have changed those easily with the engine in the car.
    The 365GT4 2+2/400/412 have in what can only be a cost cutting design change from the Daytona, which use a small timing chain and then gears to drive the cams, the 400I and its siblings use one chain from an intermediate shaft all the way up to the two cams on one bank then down into the 'v' across two idlers then back up to other two cams then all the way back down to the intermediate shaft. This arrangement of course leads to chain stretching and then nice little grooves worn into the aluminum timing case if you do like me and refuse to believe that 40,000 Km change date suggested by the factory.
    My valves clearance were within spec. they are cam on follower and hard valve seats so they really do not go any where like any other over head cam engine with the same arrangement. Now my guides were shot and needed to be changed.
    The water pump to be sealed right needs the engine out.
    With the CIS fuel injection there is no adjusting needed once it is set correctly.
    The 400I/412 has magnetic pick up in the distributor so no timing adjustment needed.
    Once the engine is 'right ' there really is not much to do in tell the next 'service'.
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  19. RicSinger

    RicSinger Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2016
    268
    San Diego California
    Full Name:
    Ricardo Singer
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  20. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 23, 2007
    5,527
    North Pole AK
    Wow! I’d say that’s a going to be a big job. Will be great when done. I’m planning on redoing all of the oil lines this winter. It seems like they all leak a little bit which adds up. Plz post more pictures as you continue with the project.
     
  21. RicSinger

    RicSinger Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2016
    268
    San Diego California
    Full Name:
    Ricardo Singer
    Most definitely, I will post along the way.


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  22. RicSinger

    RicSinger Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2016
    268
    San Diego California
    Full Name:
    Ricardo Singer
    Hello everyone, as I continue in the final stages of the full service to my 400, I ran into the situation where I need to repair or replace my expansion tank but I have not been able to find on.

    I would appreciate if anyone could direct me to the right please or give me a reference of where I could find either a repair shop or a new one available at a fair and logical cost.

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  23. rubenpadron

    rubenpadron Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 22, 2013
    1,043
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Ruben
    Hi Ricardo,

    Not sure if you’ve checked the usual providers (Ricambi, Eurospares, etc.). I was able to order one of these a couple of years ago from Ricambi for ~$430. I see Ricambi has one available but for $3,300!?!?!:eek:

    Maybe worth a call since it could be a pricing error... either that or it’s amazing price gouging happening.

    Good luck in your search!

    Ruben
     
  24. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    You missed, I think.

    The part number is 114708
     
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  25. rubenpadron

    rubenpadron Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 22, 2013
    1,043
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Ruben
    #23 rubenpadron, Sep 1, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2020
    Good point!

    I just realized that I quoted the prices for the part I previously purchased for my 412 (part 126466), indeed NOT the part that the OP was asking for which was for a 400i (part 114708) and is readily available for $786 on Ricambi.

    BTW, the 412 radiator and the expansion tank have the same exact price, down to the cent... perhaps this is by design, just calling it out in case it could be a pricing error. Hopefully this is helpful. :)

    Cheers,

    Ruben
     
  26. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,360
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Despite their name Mostly British in Chaumont, NY has been parting out 3 or 4 400i's. No web site anymore but phone # is 1 315-649-2861. Original owner passed a few years ago but his wife and some of his workers still are running the business last I heard. If you have a list of parts you need you can probably get a group price. Let me know if you reach them.
    Ken
     
  27. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2004
    3,303
    Edmonton, AB Canada
    Full Name:
    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Ricardo,

    I am unsure where you looked, but a quick google search revealed a number of places that offer the expansion tank (part number 114708):

    $494 USD https://www.ferraripartsexchange.com/products/expansion-tank
    413 GBP https://www.gtopartsshop.com/en-gb/ferrari/cs11907n_new_header-tank-400i_part-no-114708
    455 GBP http://www.superformance.co.uk/v12/cooling.html

    used on on Ebay for $220 USD
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-400i-Header-Tank-Expansion-Tank-P-N-114708-/133034213170

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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