Used Race Cars 4 Sale Listing??? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Used Race Cars 4 Sale Listing???

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by enjoythemusic, Nov 6, 2006.

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  1. prg

    prg Rookie

    Feb 17, 2004
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    oklahoma
    #51 prg, Nov 15, 2006
    Have fun with the FC! Every door slammer you drive from now on will feel like an unresponsive obese pig. Have to mind your corners though :) Open wheels don't always inspire courtesy (or common sense) in your competitors.
     
  2. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #52 enjoythemusic, Nov 15, 2006
    Amen. Have done Formula Dodge and while slower than an FC, can easily see what you mean.


    If it is not one thing, its another. Its always something... Fortunately, to date, have had very few problems from guys with faster cars (slow drivers) allowing me to pass. Of course if the FC is painted like an Ferrari F1 car i have a feeling the guys at FCA and other 'gentleman' events will be very obliging :)
     
  3. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

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    #53 senna21, Nov 15, 2006
    I used to run FC ten years ago. Swift DB6's and VanDiemen RF92-94's. We ran them in SCCA Club and the USAC F2000 Pro series. My favorite though was the Vector. Great looking car and the front mono-shock was an interesting setup. Email me anytime if you have any questions. It's been a while but I'm sure I could clear the cobwebs out to help.
     
  4. BoulderFCar

    BoulderFCar F1 World Champ
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    #54 BoulderFCar, Nov 15, 2006
    Do us a favor and post up pics and impressions when you get it. I'm still flip flopping between DSR and FC.
     
  5. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #55 enjoythemusic, Nov 16, 2006
    MANY thanks and i may indeed tap your great knowledge at some point.


    Pics will go up once the deal has completely finalized on Sunday. Alas, driving and in-car video with data overlay will have to wait until Spring 2007 as am in New England and have a feeling FC cars do not like to be run in the snow and ice :(
     
  6. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

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    #56 Admiral Thrawn, Nov 16, 2006
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  7. PenP

    PenP Formula Junior
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    Pen Pendleton
    #57 PenP, Nov 17, 2006
    Cool car - is it an Dallara? Ford engine?

    I think an FC is faster than an FF.

    At the Willow Springs racetrack near Los Angeles, in vintage racing, the 105hp Formula Fords do the same lap times as the 500hp big bore Mustang/ Camaro/Corvettes!! Amazing. Oh, and it is a FAST track with two long straigtaways, not a slow technical track (where it would be more believable that a small formula car could outlap a muscle car).
     
  8. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #58 enjoythemusic, Nov 17, 2006
    FF uses 1.6L engine while the FC has the 2.0L. Also of note, i believe FF cars do not have front and rear aero package while an FC has a F1-like setup :)

    Will post pics of the FC on Sunday or so once the deal is done.

    OH BABY! YEAH BABY YEAH!!!!!!!!!! :)'''''''''

    --------------------------------
    PenP, it is amazing how fast a FC car gets around the track. Have been doing much consideration and after weighing in all the angles and my preferences the FC series was the choice. Wonder what the reaction will be when a puny 2L car is passing F360 and F430 on the track handily that in total costs less than it takes for a Fcar owner to replace only his/her CF brakes/rotors. Yup, and ENTIRE CAR that outperforms an Fcar for less than the Fcar's brake/rotor replacement cost. Makes one wonder...
     
  9. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    Sep 15, 2004
    5,465
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    Peter Krause
    #59 ProCoach, Nov 17, 2006
    Man, that red/yellow T-492 gives me a woody! <grin>

    Formula C in the USA used to be 1100cc Cosworth 4V BD with wings, then Super Vee (air cooled VW Type IV, then 1835cc SOHC water cooled) came along, with Formula C morphing into Formula Continental, which adopted the English "Super Ford" or FF2000 rules (started in 1976) in the early Eighties.

    Steve, I think you'll have a great time. Watch out for T3 at NHIS and Big Bend your first couple times into Turn 1, Lap 1! <very big grin>

    It's one thing to think of driving these cars in a track day setting, another entirely when you have many different people with many different agendas, experience and motivation so close that if someone makes a mistake, you've spent far more than the "carbon fiber rotors" on the repair of your VD. Just be careful. You'll not just be out there with FC's, you'll be out there with Atlantics, Formula SCCA cars, FM's, C Sports, D Sports and S2's, everyone having different strengths and weaknesses. Analyze, then attack! <very, very big grin>

    I'm still amazed when I see the oldest ( 1981-84) S2 times at Lime Rock in the high 52's, low 53's. Average then and now is in the high 54's, low 55's, but yes, it's fun to pass everything GT or Production based on track! Don't become a slave to a particular lap time, comfort and confidence will yield more benefit than anything more than a good, basic car set up, a "trick" engine or a "REM'd" gearbox. Post pics of your new toy.

    The two best resources I know for the mechanical care of your car (and more importantly, you as a driver) are Joe Stimola in Locust Valley, NY and Mike Agnifilo at Stonebridge Sports & Classics in Bethel, CT. I've raced with Mike for a long time and he has Atlantic, sports racing and competition experience second to none. He's also a hell of a coach. There will be no shortage of "free information" for you but at this stage, you should seek out a pro to answer your questions in getting up to speed.

    -Peter
     
  10. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #60 enjoythemusic, Nov 17, 2006
    Peter,

    Many thanks for your post and excellent advice. Oh yeah, i have had an kissing of T3 at NHIS in the cold/rain track day with the Fcar. Many thanks for the names of good coaches. The plan for 2007 will be to learn the car and get comfortable. No racing! A local club, COMSCC, has what is called time trials and this is not wheel to wheel and a (relatively) safe way for a first year go with the car. Am in no rush for wheel to wheel racing, though will be at various tracks in 2007 during gentleman lapping and open track days. Again, this will bring more driving knowledge and allow me time to see what techniques could be employed when needed at a higher level.

    Oh yeah, balling her up can be very $$$ and have priced out the usual bits that tend to get separated. Have invested into the owner's HUGE spares package (one of the largest of ANYONE out there). One of my goals here is cost containment as the 308 is now at a point where things will get very $$$ for the next level. Of course cost containment and racing are probably not to be used within the same sentence, though here is hoping against hope. This is also why am starting out S-L-O-W with the new car at the track and taking a year, or two.. or whatever it takes, until things are very comfortable.

    Again, many thanks for the post and info. ALL help is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS appreciated.
     
  11. PenP

    PenP Formula Junior
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    #61 PenP, Nov 18, 2006
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  12. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #62 enjoythemusic, Nov 19, 2006
    Ummmmm........ no. In 5 hours will complete the deal provided the usual PPI pans out well on the car.
     
  13. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #63 enjoythemusic, Nov 20, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The deal is done. Here are the details:

    RF99 ex-Richard Morgan USF2000 pro car with one of the best Elite Pro motors in the country (6 races since rebuild, we did leakdown/compression and it was very good). The car took pole for the one and only race it did this year (VIR pro races, it came in second place for that race). According to the SCCA timing/scoring and other data, the car does 1:54 at WGI, 1:28 at Mosport (long), and 1:05 at NHIS (not sure which config, i am guessing South oval). No data for LRP as the owner did not seem to run there.

    For years the car was always serviced/stored at GTP Motorsports, who is the US importer of the VD. Car came with Penske 8700 triple adjustable shocks with ICP hydraulic perches (serviced by Stimola in 2005 and has dyno sheets. 8700 bodies with 8760 innards) and upgraded motor mounts. Various Pennon aero bits, both normal and high downforce aero packages included. Pi System 2 data acquisition with all major sensors, beacon, beacon battery and a Dell laptop with PI Windows software and data logs. The car is wired for a radio (IMSA connector). Pics and detailed spares sheet below.
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  14. ctkellett

    ctkellett Karting

    Jan 2, 2004
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    #64 ctkellett, Nov 20, 2006
    Well done, you passed the first test in racing, finding a car and package that SOMEONE ELSE dumped a ton of cash and time into. If you need any help with setting up the radio system , let me know. I will keep an I out for you @ the track.


    Chris Kellett
    Sync Speed, Inc.
    Racing Communications
     
  15. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #65 enjoythemusic, Nov 20, 2006
    Many thanks, though will not plead innocence pertaining to the 308 that is here as have dumped tons of... It was time to stop the 308 development for now and get a proper dedicated track car IMO.


    Actually i do need a radio setup. Largest track is WGI so need something with good power. Feel free to PM me and we'll talk :)
     
  16. jjstecher

    jjstecher Formula Junior

    Jan 21, 2002
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    Rochester Minnesota
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    John Stecher
    #66 jjstecher, Nov 20, 2006
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    Sweet car man! Been a while since I have stopped by Ferrarichat but it looks like you decided to go the good route and get a real car like I did. The Ferrari just wasn't worth it. As you may or may not know I went with the DSR field just because of the speed and I like the enclosed wheel setup (as opposed to open wheel) since contact is a way of life in most SCCA events.

    I wish I would have got here a little earlier as I would have told you to consider the F1000 class if you wanted open wheel...should be every bit as fast as FC and cheaper.

    Here's my car. :) If you get to the midwest or runoffs next year look me up! Or if you need help at all I am happy to assist with what little I know.

    Nice thing with the FC's is the large field!
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  17. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

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    #67 senna21, Nov 20, 2006
    Did the set up sheets come with it? If not try to get them. When a customer would sell a car we'd make sure we'd Zero out any set ups, and no set-sheets would go with the car. If they're moving on to another racing class try, try, try to get those set up sheets. They're as valuable as the car IMO. Knowing the gear ratios, wing adj, shock settings, ride height, spring rates, ect will save LOTS of on track time and LOTS of $$$$$.
     
  18. PenP

    PenP Formula Junior
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    #68 PenP, Nov 20, 2006
    Steve, wow! Well done - especially if you got all that for the original budget you sited. Amazing bang for the buck.

    I took my 308 on its first run through the famous canyons out here (so far I had only driven it to Monterey and on the track). Had a blast – drives so much different than my 365 (obviously), and while not as precise and flickable as my Europa, it just has a great feeling to it (despite the huge ARB's I have on the car). Quite a dilema: since this was suppposed to be my "track" car, do I sell the 308 when I get my "real" race car? I've had some pretty cool cars over the years, but this is the only one that makes me turn my head every time I see it. Wonder if my neighbors would mind if I installed a huge pre-fab steel garage structure in the back yard!
     
  19. jjstecher

    jjstecher Formula Junior

    Jan 21, 2002
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    #69 jjstecher, Nov 20, 2006
    Totally agree with this. It will save you $$$$$$$$$$ in tires, fuel, entrance fees working on dialing the car in as well as other consumables.
     
  20. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

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    #70 Admiral Thrawn, Nov 20, 2006
    John and Steve, what are the specs of your cars?

    Steve, the F2000 looks like FF with wings - we just have the basic FF here in Australia. I take it F2000 has more power? It may be just me but the rear tyres appear fatter, too.

    John, how does your car compare to a Radical? Say an SR3?
     
  21. Kram

    Kram Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2004
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    Mark
    #71 Kram, Nov 20, 2006
    Back in the day when I drove and we all spoke Latin (early 1980’s) FF 2000 was the same as FF 1600 save for:

    1600 c.c. pushrod Ford engine was changed for a 2000 c.c. OHC Ford engine.
    Wings were added.
    Slicks were added.
    Price was added onto by the manufacturer.

    The cars were faster.

    Actually the tires were better and the wings helped. The two litre Ford engine was, I thought, a heavy dog that little sort of sat there and sounded bigger.

    As others have mentioned, set up is ALL!!! Think car radio: Useless unless tuned.

    Good luck!
     
  22. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #72 enjoythemusic, Nov 21, 2006

    Yes. Complete setup sheets for each track day it ever ran including driver comments as changes were made.



    Agreed, though in defense of the Ferrari it was good training wheels so to speak. Your DSR looks AMAZING, my wife was looking over my shoulder and said it looked like the Batmobile. Can understand and appreciate why you choose enclosed wheel too. Many thanks for the offer of help, i may need it as ALL help is ALWAYS appreciated.


    FC uses the 2L 'Pinto' carbed (or very new ?Zertec? 2L fi) engine. Dyno sheets say the carbed engine does 150HP and 140TQ, and overall car weight is 975 lbs. It is a wings and things affair and the car came with both adjustable high and low downforce setup.


    Well, the HUGE spares package brought it a bit over budget, though parts aint getting cheaper so...

    The 308, once you dump (or invest depending on how you look at it) a low of time and $$$ into tweaking the suspension things get better. i see the 308 with modded suspension and better brakes as a very solid, good training car. Until the TQ/HP increase the car is not competitive, yet a low of fun on the street and track. Enjoy the 308 and have fun, indeed she will turn heads. For hard core track use there are options, and once you feel it is time to move up, then let your conscience and wallet (and sanity) be your guide.

    Dare i say it, one day i may sell my lil 308 to another guy who wants a fun street car but desires track experience. It is sad if she languishes here for only street use. She is a great training wheels car and can be setup for being very forgiving or all out 'go for it.'
     
  23. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

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    #73 Admiral Thrawn, Nov 21, 2006
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  24. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

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    #74 senna21, Nov 21, 2006
    That's the main difference. A FF2000 and also run with an undertray that's really a very effective diffuser. I Believe the FF2000 also has slightly larger brakes than the FF1600 class. What leads me to this assumption is that after I'd left racing I'd heard many people were taking the Swift DB6 (a FF2000) and converting them to run in the FF1600 class as they were no longer as competitive with the newer VanDiemen RF94. The body style is almost exactly the same on the two with the exception of the wings. The 1600cc engine fits in perfectly and the DB1 nose and engine cover fits on the DB6 to eliminate the wings. But, the major advantage of the DB6 is it utilizes push rods rather than the old rocker arms on the DB1. The other thing that needed to be changed out is the uprights on the cars. The FF1600 uprights need to be fitted for it to be legal in the class. As I've said I think this is because of the brake size. I could be wrong. It may very well have to do with the upright size or possibly wheel size. Pick up points on the uprights I was told are the same so there's no change in suspension geometry.
     
  25. jjstecher

    jjstecher Formula Junior

    Jan 21, 2002
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    John Stecher
    #75 jjstecher, Nov 22, 2006
    Best way to check out the specs of my car, at least what is in the machine, are to look at Lee Stohr's site here http://www.stohr.com/html/dsr.html My car is the 04D model which is slightly different than the WF1 in the aero department.

    Compared to the SR3 my car is faster around most tracks due to the class difference making the Radical run heavier since it uses 1300cc+ engines. As an FYI the rebodied Formula Atlantics dominate the CSR race class.

    I am in the process at the moment of moving from the 99 Yamaha R1 engine, which made about 170hp at 13000RPMs, in my car to a new 06 R1 motor which is dynoing on a bike chassis at about 205hp at 16000 RPMs. :D I use to think the Ferrari sounded cool at 8k...16k is unreal.

    Steve biggest thing I can say when first getting in the car is take your time getting use to driving with aero and really trust in the car. I took a while to come up to speed with the fact that there just are some turns (Turn 7 at Road America) that if you keep the hammer down you can take flat out given the extra aero grip versus if you let off. 10mph faster at Turn 7 with aero lets that car stick at 2.4G's where as if I lift I would start a controlled power slide around the turn. Took me growing a set of nuts to figure out I could do it. Second thing I can tell you is make sure you build a seat that really fits your body into the car. You will be amazed at the amount of feedback your ass will start giving you with a good seat. You really want to aim to become one with the car when belted in. I think you said your familar with Pennon Composites...they make IMHO the best bead seat out there.

    Man your going to have so SO MUCH fun. First time I exited the pits and laid the hammer down I decided I would never go back...haven't stopped smiling since.
     
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