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Tooth found in differential drain

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by c4b4the04, Feb 19, 2020.

  1. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    romano schwabel
    have not known that the BBLM had only 14 " wheels
    but I think most stress is when accelerating a standing car to the mainshaft and the pinion shaft, also to the shaft from the drop down gears to the mainshaft and also only for the 1st and 2nd gear. this stress then is longer than only the short stress when jumping, even this stress then is harder

    what is WOT?

    what are dogs rings? never heard this word. sorry :)
    and what is M/C gearbox?

    you know english is not my mother language but I always happy to learn somthing new here in this forum :)
     
  2. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    I have been thinking all over again and you are right paul. those jumps on a racetrack gives more stress to the gearbox than accelerating from standing at the BBLM . I compared with my competition and I think the stress at this car from standing is equal to the jumps with a race car on a track, only last longer
     
  3. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
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    WOT, wide open full throttle. M/C gearbox, motorcycle gearbox engagement pawls.
     
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  4. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    thank you david for the info :)
     
  5. c4b4the04

    c4b4the04 Karting

    Jun 9, 2017
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    Cassidy
    So I am gathering funds and part numbers/torque settings. Is there a one-page list of all torque specs I'll need? I have the WSM and I have often thought a 5th grader translated it....because that is about how proficient I am in Italian! Just want to be sure I have all my ducks in a row before dropping the driveline. My second time in less than a year...guessing it'll be easier this time.

    Current thought: Pull drive shafts so the car can be pushed with a dry carrier/gearbox. Drop the exhaust while it is at my house. Measure, cut and weld up a wheeled cradle to move the driveline around. Pull intake, alternator, AC lines, etc. and all electricals. Then, tow the car to a friends house with a lift. Drop the driveline onto my cradle, trailer it home and do the work from there. I have friends with presses and access to cleaning tanks, of course none at home in my little HOA outside of DC....not really where DIY car people 'reside'. I'll separate the motor with an engine lift and rig up a second stand for the motor. I'm assuming I can lift a gearbox with another person? When it is all off of the frame I will clean and paint. Don't have the funds to do all new bushings so that will just have to wait until the next belt service.

    Motor has 26k on it. I am assuming I should also check valve clearance while I'm in there? I'll be pulling the front cover and doing water pump bearings, seals, etc. and most likely chain tensioner. I'll do cam seals and a whole gasket set (no head gaskets, it runs fine).

    While it is all out, should I do thermostats in the car as well? Any idea on part number for the heater core hose? I'd like to tend to some of those things while I'm in there. This is SO not what I had planned by my BellaRossa has plans of her own. I'm just happy to be along for the (hopefully soon to be) ride.

    Am I missing some major component? I just did cam belt bearings but I will do new belts to reset the time to zero months. Still in shock this has all come up in less than a week. Mad thanks to Newman and Rifledriver and all of you for input. It isn't impossible to do, just a lot for one dude in a single bay garage.

    Cassidy
     
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  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Leave the motor together until it is out of the car. No reason to remove front cover either. Get it apart and get a parts list and start getting parts.

    Valves should be adjusted every 15,000. Without a rather special mount no good way to put motor on a stand. For one time hardly worth making one. Pull power unit from subframe and tie it down in pick up. Put subframe back in car and it can be rolled around/towed anywhere you want.
     
  7. MerlinTech

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    I have worked on two BBLM cars, consulted on a third and all had street car transmission internals, no dog rings or straight cut gears on the inside. They did have the adjustable straight cut drop gears. I love the sound too.
     
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  8. c4b4the04

    c4b4the04 Karting

    Jun 9, 2017
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    Update update ..... it’s a first gear tooth! Not a differential tooth which I had feared (and subsequently looked into selling organs).

    So now I sort of know what I’m up against. Last fall I felt the clutch getting ‘soft’. I’m going to go on a limb and guess that it was actually the diff going, and when I get in there this will be the perfect time to replace with a Newman’s own design.

    So now my hunt begins for a first gear combo. The part numbers I’m finding on Eurospares seem to be related to gearbox number but won’t the Hill Engineering upgrade for the 512 fit right into place for LESS money and MORE reliability? Am I missing something here?

    It’s really an interesting break. There seems to be a line in the gear where the hardness penetrated and then you can see where the tooth failed. I’m not entirely sure it was driver error, I think this was a faulty gear from Ferrari.

    I truly get nauseous at the thought this was crisis averted because I fixed the shifter seal. I drained the fluid and found the tooth. The gearbox was turned and I didn’t see the missing tooth.

    I’m all ears. Haven’t the first gear failure been on the smaller input shaft gear and not the big gear? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login


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  9. c4b4the04

    c4b4the04 Karting

    Jun 9, 2017
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    Tim asked me a good question, could this have been caused by shifter misalignment? I couldn’t see how but I’m into the deep end of the pool here and look for your collective wisdom.

    As an aside, I decided I wanted a Testarossa at the 2014 National FCA event. I was an in-car instructor for the event and a Coppa Bella judge that year. If it weren’t for this forum and the shared willingness of so many of you, I could not have realized this dream. Thank you. Thank you for making this possible for me. It won’t be cheap or easy but I am believing it can be done. Scheduling the drop of the driveline now. I’ll have to go elsewhere to do it and bring the whole cradle back home to overhaul (and reseal the engine while it’s out)


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  10. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    it is right that the single gear numbers are related to gearbox numbers. but you not have to worry. if you will use a gear set then those gears are changeable form gearbox to gearbox. I did several gearboxes and had a lot of different gear numbers but when you have a look in the parts catalog you see what numbers are matching together. at home ( just now in thailand ) I have a list where I all have written down what sets are matching together and belongs to what gearbox number. one set I have seen has a different ratio.


    this is no driver error. the gears have been made by ZF, not by ferrari. mostly you see the ZF stamp also on the gears, but not at all. so may be ferrari let made those gears also from other manufacturers?

    I have seen a lot of pitting on the 1st and 2nd gears and also on the 4th gears, but until now not a broken tooth like at your gear
     
  11. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
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    Cassidy, You know the gears come in pairs. My set were made in Australia, I believe GT parts in AZ. Sold them. Don't get OEM gears. 1st gear is a weak point in these cars!
     
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  12. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    not really right david.
    they have to be changed as a set, but you get single gears. and if so you have to check 100% if the part numbers matching together. then it could be sure 90 % that they have been made with the same machine - but I only would change a complete gear set ( so please not missunderstanding now: I mean under set always 2 gears, not all gears ;) )
     
  13. c4b4the04

    c4b4the04 Karting

    Jun 9, 2017
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    So on a job like this, should I be considering changing synchro rings, springs etc., bearings in the trans? It was a dealer owned and then longtime F car owner who had BB's before it. I just don't think this car has been abused. Should I be looking at second gear too? Once it's out I'll be on a fairly tight timeline to get pieces in place. I just need to be sure I can budget for all that I'll need. Those that have been this deep, what would you swap over at 26k miles?


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  14. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I'd be happy to look up TSB's for your gear box but without a VIN and transmission number I can't. I don't take PM's so just post it.
     
  15. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    only this what is worn out. after such a short time I think no need to renew the synchros, but you may meassure. also the bearings still OK I think and no need to change
    when all is dismanteled clean really good the synchronizer sleeves inside, a lot of depris is there because of the centrifugal force

    Brian: what is/are TSB?
     
  16. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Technical Service Bulletin, he has the Factory dispatches.....
     
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  17. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    thank you buppa
     
  18. c4b4the04

    c4b4the04 Karting

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    Does that mean that my 88 has some updates done? I would be interested in this info.

    So much to learn. Right now I am trying to build a spreadsheet for parts to order, pretty daunting as I want to do the engine seals that are seeping too. Which valve covers does an 88 have, the one piece or separate O-ring style?
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    No one will ever know without numbers.
     
  20. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    RPM in Vermont asked me recently if I need any internal gears for a boxer / Testarossa gearbox as they had some they got stuck with. Give them a call.
     
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  21. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Due to the sparse availability of gears for these transmissions for most of the cars lives a great many have been repaired replacing the single gear. It can turn into operation snowball finding pairs and before you know it you are replacing nearly everything in the gear box. While the cars were still in production we had trouble getting gears we needed.

    From this picture it looks like the 1st drive gear is a 119792 which is NLA. However its matching driven gear 132143 is still a good number at the eye watering price of $3565. Your other option is to have them made. Best to get it apart, inspect and look at the numbers on the gears. The part book information is not fool proof.
     
  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    ZF was replaced by a different supplier sometime during the TR production. Between that and different ratios there are a lot of gear combinations possible.
     
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  23. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    No.
     
  24. c4b4the04

    c4b4the04 Karting

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    #49 c4b4the04, Mar 2, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
    Chassis vin is 73705, what number do I need from the trans? I can get that tonight.

    Eternally grateful. It has taken me a little while to absorb, this is scary territory for a married man (trying to stay that way).

    Cassidy
     
  25. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    thank you brian for this info, have not known this. but I have several gears/gearsets with no ZF stamps/markings but with older ferrari part numbers. so could it be that ferrari for some time used both gear manufacturers?
     

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