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F8 “Too fast for the Road”

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by MalibuGuy, Dec 2, 2020.

  1. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
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    Watched a Harry’s Garage video which bashes the F8 for being too fast for the road. “7.8 seconds to reach 125 mph”
    “One second to go from 35 to 60.”
    “The chances to do this are zero And if you do you would be locked-up”

    A fair assessment is that the F8 is a brilliant piece of kit aside from a muffled and somewhat anemic exhaust note.

    Perhaps the person reviewing the F8 is too old for the F8!
     
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  3. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
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    I mean- make it as fast as possible and let the end user decide what performance attributes to tap into.
     
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  4. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    The reality is that most cars are "too fast for the road" in most countries given the current speed limits and regulations (it's even worse for motorbikes btw).
     
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  5. soulsea

    soulsea Formula Junior
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    With the democratization of straight line speed where budget and mid range electric cars are or soon will be on par with supercars/hypercars, and with a physical limits to how quickly a car's mass can get up to a specific speed, pretty much everyone will soon have access to this time of performance.

    That's why so many of us are reverting back to slightly older cars that still have stupid performance but engage the driver in more ways that just acceleration.

    #lessnanniesmoresmilies
     
  6. buddyg

    buddyg F1 Rookie
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    Saw that one, he did love the car but just too fast for him. He better stick to his old Countach.
     
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  8. wthensler

    wthensler Formula 3
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    Loved the video.........

    He isn't too old for the car - what he said is he wouldn't buy the F8 because he lacked the self control to own one.

    Being honest up front can sometimes save one a whole lotta heartache down the road.
     
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  9. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

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    Speed is his temptress which he feels helpless to resist. Rather than give into his temptations, he would rather go without.
     
  10. john Owen

    john Owen Karting

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    I had a nice chat with HM at the Salon Prive in September and can confirm he's a hell of a nice guy with great car knowledge. I also drove the F8 in August and loved it. Didn't feel any faster than my 488 if i'm being honest but a step up in dynamics especially the steering. I found it easier to drive at sane speeds compared to my 488 which might be down to a more linear smoother throttle response.
     
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  11. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    I really think jounos should refrain from going down that hole. Too fast for the road? Silly rabbit.
    This mantra has been echoed over and over for the past 50 years. And frankly in this case, it stinks of old man vs. modern car. Harry has reviewed plenty of cars that are faster and a lot more crazy - yet those did not pose a problem. I really do think both he and Chris Harris have gotten Ferrari in their sights, and everything they do is wrong. His review of the 812 was pretty bizarre too, talking about the 812 not being the perfect GT. Guess what Harry, Ferrari does not place it in their lineup as a GT car for a reason - it's a sports car!
    He raved on about the CGT despite the fact that it is a 670 hp monster with no safety net and a gated transmission. He has faulted the Huracan Evo for its lack of comfort, but not for its speed. The lates McLaren was brilliant and "not too fast". The latest Porsche gets high marks too and again this is not mentioned once. Now comes the F8 and all of a sudden it's a problem which deducts from the car.

    What an utter pile of nonsense. I used to like his reviews a lot, but I think he has lost the plot.


    As for the general idea of too fast for the road? Meh. What he claims we will never do, I suspect a lot of us do quite often. I'm probably not entirely wrong when I say that most of us nerds more than one hand to count the times per month we exceed 200 kph. I dunno. Maybe we just do things different here in Europe.

    We as drivers develop with the cars, and what felt blisteringly fast 15 years ago, doesn't today.

    I will keep watching his reviews of classic and vintage cars, but I'm done with his new car reviews.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  13. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ

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    I agree, in part, with Il Co-Pilota above. I agree that Harry has lost the plot. I thought his 812 “review” was ridiculously out of touch with the intent of the car.
    I do feel however that we have now entered an era where “too fast for the road” actually has become a reality. It is true that it may have been said in years past with cars that were much slower and that was an error on the part of those reviewers. But the fact remains that some simple calculus reveals that the roads haven’t changed (their geometry, distance between bends in road, angle of those bends, condition of surfaces, weather conditions, etc.) but the number of people on the roads has increased. If you then superimpose the performance curve for modern supercars onto that other curve I think you can make the case that we have passed the “local maximum” and are on the downward part of the curve.
    If you now have a car that handles easily the current road designs operating at 30% of its performance envelop the car loses some of its thrill, it becomes less engaging, less time to enjoy and savor the nuances.
    Case in point I drove the F8 Spider not long ago having put down a deposit. I was impressed by the overall beauty and feel of the car but kept having to watch for the blue lights on the steering wheel as I kept banging into the rev limiter, and had to remain focused looking for blue lights in the rear view mirror to try and not lose my driver’s license! There was little slowly winding out an engine and enjoying the sounds changing through the rev range; there was very little nuance to the car.
    I think right now the car manufacturer that really understands this is Porsche, and in particular their GT car division.
    I think enjoying a beautifully balanced glass of wine often yields more satisfaction for longer than slamming shots of tequila.
     
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  14. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula Junior

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    Just wait until he drives an SF90 or 765LT
     
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  15. ntatfas

    ntatfas Karting
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    It is quite clear that nearly all cars are "too fast" for the road when the maximum speed limit is 70mph/130Km/h and most "normal" cars can go double of that and ours triple.

    With the increasing prevalence of average speed traps & cameras it can take a long old drive before you get to roads without them and there seem to be less of them each year. For Europe the end of spirited driving is approaching outside of the track.

    Do not take the above as me endorsing speeding – speed limits clearly have their purpose in many places, just not everywhere at the limits set.

    As an aside I once heard somebody argue that cars should be limited to 75mph but it did not matter as long as they could do 0-70mph in 2 seconds. Imagine the carnage when 25/50/75% of all vehicles can achieve that, ie with battery technology. Then it will be both speed and acceleration that will be banned/limited.
     
  16. gzachary

    gzachary Formula Junior
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    #13 gzachary, Dec 3, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
    Part of the issue is also the physical one.

    Most drivers can usually tolerate 1 g force for a brief period of time. A 0-60mph of 2.7 seconds (roughly the Pista and the F8) generates 1g force.

    The SF90 is calculated to be at 2.28 0-60mph (not 0-100km/hr). That will generate about 1.2g.

    A sports car manufacturer who stated a 0-60mph of 1.9 seconds is creating a vehicle that generates 1.44 g force on the driver.

    It is physically not natural to feel more than 1 g force. In any direction. The degree of difficulty of control below 2.7 seconds will get quite high. This of course implies a perfect launch and that crude nannies (hopefully not overlords in the future) are doing the launch control for the the car. I also doubt whether anyone will feel and process a difference between 1.7 or 1.9 or 2.1. Then there are really the benchmarks of performance that I prefer that are more lap time based. Probably because I enjoy the track. This is where the driving performance can be quite different.

    IMO, a new exciting area is where to use the additional power.

    Perhaps the additional power can make up for sloppy launches, advanced torque vectoring, et cetera and that can soak up more of the additional power. On a 488 Challenge Evo, that wing generates huge downforce above significant speed. Much better better cornering. I can see the additional power being used to drive “software” version of aero as described below. Basically software that is changing the air flow on demand as opposed to the fixed aero we now have.

    An interesting area of power use to drive aero here is what Gordon Murray has done with the T.50. He has used fans on the body to create on demand, controllable aero. There is a place you can use the additional power. And not disturb the fluidity of the design because you can modulate the fans. True it’s not analog if days way gone past. At least it’s a software version of aero. It will bring back a discussion of whether computer software version driving fans for aero is still analog. The driver doesn’t sense it just like they wouldn’t sense the fixed aero on a car.

    So there are probably places to use the additional power train power to create a better driving experience than just pounding ahead with straight forward launch. Great fun stuff to think about.
     
  17. john Owen

    john Owen Karting

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    Personally i didn't find the F8 too fast for the road as its quite involving even at lower speeds due to relatively short gearing. Porsches are worst in this regard as they are often overly highly geared, sometimes made worse with a paucity of torque at lower revs. Turbo Ferraris don't need to be revved high for fast safe transportation as they flow with roads with plenty low end torque.
     
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  18. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ

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    Just goes to show you how different drivers are looking for different experiences.
    I love listening to the engine in my GT3 as I wind it up from 3000rpm to 9000rpm and then let it roll down on the overrun back to 3000rpm, all in one gear, all at quick but reasonably safe speeds on a winding country road. Then when I want to experience a shift, I use the classic third pedal, balance the brake and/or gas with the clutch, slide between gears in one of the best 6-speed shifters ever created...lather, rinse, repeat.
     
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  19. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Veteran
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    Once we are all electric and Bluetooth connected some with a switch will limit all cars max speed at the push of a button.
     
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  20. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    I dont find the Pista or TDF to be too fast for the street. if i lived in England with narrow wet roads, maybe.
     
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  21. wthensler

    wthensler Formula 3
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    Too fun, then?
     
  22. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    Not the Pista ;)
     
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  23. wthensler

    wthensler Formula 3
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    The short gearing ratios of the PDK are for me one of the highlights of my 458. Thrashing it on a really twisty road, with constant up shifts and dumping of gears, and you will realize how magnificent this car flows. I do think the 458 could use a bit more low end grunt in these driving conditions, so in this regard the F8 would kill it.
     
  24. OmegaPO8500

    OmegaPO8500 Rookie

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    Harry’s videos are great and I second what others have said regarding acceleration times and speed limits. I had a 991.2 turbo s before my 458 and yes, there are even faster cars but really unless you’re on a track you are not going to be able to use all the performance that these cars are capable of. I checked the speedo plenty.

    Which is traveling faster a Civic going 70 mph or a Pista going 70 mph? Exactly. And with that 0-60 being over so quickly driving on a highway can become quite mundane (no one is dropping to 30 mph on a highway only to floor it again).

    Here’s to great sounding engines, twisty back roads, open highways with nice views and the fact that we are fortunate enough to be able to enjoy such cars.
     
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  25. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
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    For most of us, it takes so long to accumulate enough wealth (after putting kids through school, etc,) that by the time we can afford a super car, our age-limited reflexes make them all seem fast! And the faster, the more expensive, and the longer it takes! So by the time I can get the Gordon Murray vacuum cleaner car, a
    Miata might seem fast, enabling me to spend millions less! Lol.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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  26. buddyg

    buddyg F1 Rookie
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    I guess it must depend on where you live. There are plenty of places with wide open roads with no traffic (depending on the day of the week and time of day) where I live. There isn’t a time I take the F8 out that I’m not hammering full throttle at least a few times on the drive. To me the faster the better. I am an ex race car driver too so maybe that has something to do with it?
     
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  27. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    My take is that far too much importance has been placed on 1/4 mile and 0-60 times, in an effort to sell bragging rights more than anything else. I sort of got a taste of that with going from the 458 to the 488. The 458 was a great balance of everything and worked really well on the road. The 488 seems a bit over the top in some ways to me. Sure it was fun, but my overall take on the 488 was that it was a powerful machine, but not really a well balanced or dialed in machine. It just felt to me like Ferrari said, "Here, here's more power, good luck". I much prefer the 458, even though I might lose a drag race now and again.

    I actually ran into a similar situation with my motorcycle. I modified it and reduce the weight to the point where: yes is was blisteringly fast, but, it ended up so fast, I almost couldn't control the power on the street. Having 2 wheels instead of 4 on the pavement really drives that point home a lot more. Sometimes too much power just produces something which becomes too unstable under power and thus you can't really use the power for fear of always being too much on the edge and/or going over the line. I don't know if I would say the 488 is at that point, but it's sure heading that direction, as compared to the 458. I guess a lot has to do also with whether the electronics can put the power down in a controlled manner or not.

    Something like the 812 or Lusso seems to handle the additional power better, given maybe the longer wheel base or that it's front engine maybe and/or that it's not trying to be a mid-engine track car as much as the V8 Ferraris.

    Ray
     
  28. XSpeed

    XSpeed Formula Junior

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    f8 does not feel too fast neither on track nor on country roads or authobahns.

    it felt crazy fast, yes, but also steering felt so precise that never had the feeling of losing the control.

    i didn't have the same feeling with huracan evo rwd for example. on same curvy parts of the authobahn on high speeds evo rwd felt constantly dancing left and right and its front felt too light.

    f8 is a very stable and good car at any speed.

    its only problem is opf. But that's a big one.
     
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