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458 throttle delay/hesitation in first gear

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by JPW123, Mar 29, 2020.

  1. JPW123

    JPW123 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2020
    6
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey
    Hello everyone. I am a new Ferrari 458 owner and a first time poster from Australia. I have no clue what I am doing (with regard to posting) so please bear with me if I do something wrong here.

    I have had my car for two weeks and I am still learning how to drive it. My question relates to the throttle response in first gear. When I accelerate hard from a stand-still in manual mode the car seems to hesitate/delay - even bog down for a second, before giving me full power. This does not happen in any other gear. It does not do this under medium acceleration - only when I mash the throttle to take off quickly.

    I thought this was just the traction control cutting in to stop me wheel-spinning. However, It does this in every driving mode - including Race, CT off and ESC off. The car is warmed up and the outside temperature is in the 24 - 28 degree celsius range - or around 78 degrees F. So the car and transmission are well up to temp and the VDA says car is ready to "go"

    Is this normal? Do all 458s do this? I found another thread from some else with what looks to be the same problem/issue but no-one provided a definitive answer. He also included a video. See below link:
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/diy-spark-plug-change-possible.595704/#post-146489004

    I would be grateful for anyone who can help me with this.
     
  2. JPW123

    JPW123 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2020
    6
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey
    Can you anyone help me with this? Is it normal to have a power delay in 1st gear?
     
  3. soulsea

    soulsea Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 14, 2018
    218
    Mount Pleasant SC
    Full Name:
    Serge
    Hmm, the only help I can provide is that I don't experience this in my 458.

    Does it have an aftermarket exhaust that perhaps could be the cause of this?
     
  4. Rory breaker

    Rory breaker Karting

    Apr 17, 2017
    213
    Does it actually slow the revs down, or is it revving, but you’re not moving forward with the same velocity as you would in any other gear with the rpm moving that quickly?
     
  5. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 23, 2013
    2,214
    AUSTRALIA
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    ANGELO
    When I was tunning my project car not a Ferrari with an after market MoTec ECU by far the hardest thing to remove was that delay in take off first gear.

    It would not happen if I slowly moved of the line with little throttle and then floor it.

    Its all to do with the ECU with regards to all the parameters, throttle position / fuel / VVTi / spark etc. I suggest a rest of the computer. But more taking it to Ferrari and see if any codes are showing up

    IIRC early 458's would take off with very little throttle pressure causing issues in traffic.

    Something is wrong
     
  6. JPW123

    JPW123 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2020
    6
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey
    Hi guys. Thanks for your input. The car is a completely stock 2013 model with 11,400k (7080 miles) on odometer. When it happens it seems to rev the same as in other gears - but the forward momentum feels restricted. It feels like traction control cutting in - but my understanding is that there is no traction control in CT off and ESC off. Otherwise the car is perfect. I have not tried launch control yet - as I am still getting used to the car. But right now, from a stand-still, when I hit the throttle the car goes initially, then hesitates - and then explodes forward as normal. I guess I will have to check with the dealer.

    I guess what I need to know from you guys is whether you experience any hesitation when launching from a stand-still (and not using launch control). For example, if you are sitting at the lights and then mash the throttle with CT off and ESC off - will your car spin its wheels? My car will not. It bogs down and then takes off - but with no wheelspin. I should add that my tyres are new P-Zeros - so probably have reasonable grip when warmed up.
     
  7. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY Formula 3
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    May 23, 2013
    2,214
    AUSTRALIA
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    ANGELO
    Bog and then takes off is exactly what I have said , its all to do with Throttle/ fuel / timing /spark.

    Try this open the throttle to about 2,500 and then smash it. If it takes off its what I have said above. If it still bogs its something else. Do you have a perfect idle , i.e doesn't fluctuate ? If it does again same as above or dirty idle control valve. Also at idle turn on aircon and see if idle goes up a bit .

    What you describe is a first gear thing . The throttle valve is closed . This wont manifest itself in other gears as you are higher in the rev range.

    Hope this helps. But I can tell you it took 2 weeks of tuning my project car to get rid of what you describe. Its the worst feeling. Luckily OEM computers have this under control.
     
  8. JPW123

    JPW123 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2020
    6
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey
    Hi Mandalay. Thanks for your reply. Idle is perfectly smooth when the car is warm. The idle rpm does rise when i turn the air con on. So that seems normal.

    I will try taking off from 2500 rpm - but I will have to be rolling along at around around 20 mph at that point. I think it will go fine if I mash the throttle from 2500rpm. It seems to bog only when I take off from a stand-still - with just idle rpm.

    I haven't tried holding the brake with left foot and then increasing rpm with right foot. Will that even work with a dual clutch gearbox?
     
  9. daflk

    daflk Karting

    Jan 27, 2013
    249
    Hong Kong
    How does launch control feel? Should be ripping. Hopefully not a synchro issue.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY Formula 3
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    May 23, 2013
    2,214
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    ANGELO
    The reason why I say 2,500 even 2000 rpm because the throttle body is open and not relying on the idle control valve. With a manual its easy but not with the Ferrari.

    BTW launch is what you have said it will rev up while you hold on the brake. Try on a closed road.

    But I would get Ferrari to check it out. Could also be the COP / misfire. Diagnosis will show whats up.

    I hope you bought your 458 from Ferrari
     
    Melvok likes this.
  11. Jason B

    Jason B Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Apr 7, 2006
    285
    Hbg, PA
    Check your PM.
     
  12. JPW123

    JPW123 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2020
    6
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey
    Hi again, I bought the car from a Ferrari dealer in Australia three weeks ago. It should be covered by a dealer warranty - which is separate to the Ferrari New Power Warranty.

    I have not driven the car for a few days - but I appears to drive perfectly normal - except for this hesitation. It does feel quite twitchy - and surges a bit at 4000-5000 rpm when driving normally/slowly in manual mode - but I understand this is a regular characteristic of these cars.

    If possible, can someone answer one of my original questions?

    Picture this scenario. You are sitting at the traffic lights waiting for the lights to turn green. You have CT off and ESC off (so no traction control). You have not engaged launch control. What happens when you mash the throttle when the lights turn green. Does your car wheelspin and take off like a rocket? Or is there some momentary hesitation? This is when my car has this lag or delay. It does not spin its wheels and it will not really power off quickly until it reaches around 3500 rpm.
     
  13. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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    Mar 18, 2014
    3,649
    Europe, but not by much.
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    Nuno
    Given what you shared with us, I’d bring the car in for service. That’s NOT how a 458 behaves.

    Mine pulls away in that scenario with no hesitation, fast and consistently. With or without Launch Control. I get wheelspin if it’s cold and/or if tyres aren’t warmed up.

    Funny you should mention those rpms... Although it can be completely unrelated, there’s 80% torque available from 3.250rpm and peak torque arrives at 6.000rpm. Those seem to be near to the problem you’re reporting.

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
  14. JPW123

    JPW123 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2020
    6
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey
    Thanks for your help guys. I think I will get the problem checked out.
     
    MANDALAY likes this.
  15. ipsedixit

    ipsedixit Formula Junior

    Well, we know it's not turbo lag.

    Hope it works out for you.
     
  16. Big A

    Big A Karting

    Jan 21, 2015
    91
    Australia
    OP did you buy your 458 from Ferrari Sydney? I sold my 458 through Sydney a few weeks back now. Wondering if that’s the car you purchased.
     
  17. Big A

    Big A Karting

    Jan 21, 2015
    91
    Australia
    Actually reading the spec of your car it definitely sounds like my old car. Rosso Corsa yeah?
    If so I can’t say I ever experienced what your talking about.
    If I am right i am happy to provide you further history on my ownership of the car.
    But rest assured it’s a good car. Was my first exotic and I looked after it like it was one of my children.
     

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