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"The three reasons this electric Ferrari 308 is better than the original"

Discussion in '308/328' started by Dane, Jul 22, 2020.

  1. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
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    I respected bringing a neglected GTS back to life, but it does not seem fair to compare a Tesla fitted 308 to a 40+ year old machine then declaring the carb'd car as inferior. Am I an old fuddy duddy or is there similar thinking to mine?
     
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  3. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Improving a 40+ years old car is not difficult at all: every mod you will do using modern pieces, it will improve the car a lot, of course.

    This said, I cannot express what I think about destroying an old treasure like a Ferrari or I would be banned immediately.

    Probably electric cars will be the future: you just have to buy a brand new one (every brand will produce an electric car, sooner or later: hybrid Ferrari are already on the market and you can drive an SF90 Stradale in full electric, if you like) and let preserve the work of art like this old Ferrari was.

    ciao
     
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  4. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    We'd have an electric cars and motorcycles tomorrow IF they had the range we need. A Moto with less than 300 mile range at interstate speeds (!) won't work for us. Heck, it's a 90 mile interstate ride to GET to 'fun roads.' An E car would have to manage more miles than are probably likely in the next 10 years - 4 times a year we drive 750 miles in one day. With recharge time if there were recharging stations on the route (there aren't) it would make that 11-12 hour drive into a two day deal. Not workable at all.

    OTOH, despite many years as an engine builder, I would be tickled to death to drop and never re-visit/own an IC engined vehicle! Probably won't happen in my lifetime though...
     
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  5. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

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    I wonder what the score is for a brake servo with is setup
     
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  6. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
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    Did not Enzo say "I build engines and attach wheels to them".

    That said, this 308 is a Tesla with Pininfarina styling.

    Somewhere in a garage, there is a Ferrari in pieces ...

    Too sad ...
     
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  8. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

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    With the cost of 8-cyl drivetrains getting up to $15-20k (and more to rebuild), it would be a good option if you don’t have one and don’t drive huge distances.
     
  9. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

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    Its an interesting conversion to show options, not my thing but i like the engineering detail he has gone to
     
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  10. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Rookie
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    Try not to think about it, but I guess I’m open to the transition of electric vehicles, just not my childhood dream car. I get that these electric 308 would probably be cut up and sold for parts otherwise, but still feel a slight pain in my heart each time one is born.
     
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  11. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    I think it was done 'here' first (on fchat) - see this thread started in 2014 by 308Hutch: 1978 308 GTS EV Conversion - but Hutch's is better, it ran the electric motor through the 5 speed manual trans :D
     
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  13. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula Junior

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    What would I do with a car that doesn't require major belt service every 5 years?
     
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  14. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
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    I've enjoyed reading the comments. Thank you all.

    I can't honestly put an accurate depiction on this concept. Yes, is the car faster? Of course, but for how long? Range and recharge time is not reasonable compared to an IC car.

    For me, it's about soul. There is no soul to ANY electric car. Old Ferrari's, 308s included now(!), have a soul. A golf cart does not. I don't care how fast it goes.

    Luca di Montezemolo, during a speech at Stanford, paid tribute to Porsche as automotive perfection, "...they are like a freezer. Perfect." I loved it.

    However, he added that they lacked the passion the red cars represent. Sure, do we experience an issue here or there with the red cars of Maranello, but it is about how the car makes you feel.

    I see or hear an electric car. I don't experience passion. I see a golf cart with a windshield.

    Hell, throw a Tesla motor in a '63 250 GTO, and it'd be faster...for a little while, but convenience isn't what motorsport is about. It's about how the car makes you feel. How it corners, accelerates and stops. How IT SOUNDS. How it smells. How it makes YOU smell!

    I don't buy cologne. I put 87 octane in my ol' 308 and her Weber's, and I smell just fine after 30 minutes.

    Cheers.
     
  15. Jedi

    Jedi Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, I think it's AWESOME. I've driven Teslas - so I have familiarity with the power plant. And to have "all that" in a 308, to me, would just be awesome in its own right - irrespective of the legacy of Ferrari engine tech.

    I appreciate what they've done here and would love to have the chance to drive it!!

    My flame suit is on so that's fine :)

    Jedi
     
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  16. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
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    No flame suit required! It's a discussion.

    Electrics of any sort just aren't my thing. I absolutely love David Lee's 246 conversion. It is still Ferrari power plant (modified from an F40) and a 328 gearbox. He kept the car relatively pure. Ferrari through and through. Plus, he has the original engine so the car can be restored to factory specs.

    Damn, maybe I need a flame suit. Internal combustion all the way. Look how the V-6 turbos have killed the sound of F1. The experience of F1. Take that a step further and imagine an all electric Grand Prix. Silence. No experience. No FEEL. No smell. Nothing. Like a freezer.

    Cheers.
     
  17. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    Change it every three years?

    BWH HA HA HA HA HA ! :p
     
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  18. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

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    Every decent Hollywood movie of the future has at least one classic car that has been upgraded to EV so this is just inevitable. We are being thrust into the future and it is only natural for us to drag our past along with us due to our reluctance to let go of it. Jack is a YouTuber and what he has done here is the basic click-bait. By making the controversial statement of it being "better" he has drawn your attention even though everyone knows that "better" is completely subjective and a large portion of us are clicking on that video with our minds already made up that - no it's not. But still he's right, depending on the metrics you're interested in. If it's zero to sixty and ease of maintenance that float your boat well yea, it is better. But the majority of people who buy a 308 may not be looking for those features. Maybe it's the noise, the smell, all those mechanical bits to fiddle and fuss with as well as the skills needed to operate the contraption and make it sing it's song. Maybe that's why we do it.

    I think there are enough 308's around that we don't need to get in a huff if an owner decides to do this to his own car. I would feel different if some big corporation started snapping up all the 308's and converting them en-mass but that's not happening nor is it going to happen. Everything is cool.
     
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  19. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I suppose another way to view this is now there are fewer "real" (quotes intentional) 308's out there making ours even more rare
     
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  20. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
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    Although it is sad the genuine Ferrari engine is not in the car anymore, it is still great to see the car on the roads and maybe somebody will like it and bid on a 3x8 later ... good for the seller to have more bidders.

    For me, I enjoy the mechanics, the heritage, the looks and feel of the original car. It would not be the same with an electric motor in it. I can buy a Nissan GTR or a Golf R if I want to get faster up to 60.
     
  21. JC Andruet

    JC Andruet Karting

    Jan 16, 2013
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    I watched the video a couple of days ago, thought it was an interesting concept.
    Earlier today as I sat in traffic waiting at the approach to a roundabout, a white i8 rolls silently to a halt alongside me...

    So ... you buy a ratty 308 then sort out its chassis issues, replace worn bushes, overhaul the dampers, fix the brakes, fit new tires etc. Then chuck another $65K at it undertaking the Tesla conversion.

    What do you end up with ? A castrated (well from a noise perspective) 308 with 450hp that has a limited range, a very different kind of character (great if racing from stoplights is your thing) no clack clack shifter, no heel and toe downshifts, and no chance of recouping your investment come sale time.
    Or alternatively do yourself a massive favour, buy an i8, get bored with it/find its limitations, sell it, move on and buy a nice 308 and keep it forever.
     
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  22. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

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    Well as Jack explained in the video the owner of that particular 308 had owned it for over 20 years and so had experienced all of the joys and thrills of driving it in it’s native form but had come to a point where he rarely used it anymore. So the choice was to either let it go or spend a ludicrous amount of money converting it to an EV. Apparently he just couldn’t bring himself to letting go of it because there is obviously no economic sense in doing the conversion but if he’s happy does anything else need to be said about it? I think not.
     
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  23. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
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    I love this. "A castrated (well from a noise perspective) 308..." What is this then if I refer to my 308 as, "my red girlfriend?" :)

    Paul/kcabpilot. I promise this is not directed at you. It is directed at the concept of taking what was pure and polluting it with what is and was not.

    Call me an idealist, but I feel we have an obligation to the people in Maranello who went to work to build these machines by hand. Their goal was to build the finest automobile on the planet. Compare the period's Corvette, Mustang, Mercedes-Benz and even Porsche which I still regard as near automotive perfection.

    These 308s were the finest of their time.

    Now, we have a guy who decides to butcher one by replacing the 42-year old, hand made genius with some, new fangled, golf cart power plant.

    We have another guy, even better (insert sarcasm), who touts it as superior, then says, "Enzo would be rolling in his grave" which I find despicable.

    Dang it. We have a responsibility, do we not, to care for and preserve these machines as best possible. I might be an "owner," but I am far more a humble custodian who has a responsibility to preserve my piece of automotive beauty as best possible. I will be long gone whereas "my" 308 will remain.

    OK. OK. Rant over.

    Cheers. Dane
     
  24. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    I think the E-conversion is pretty neat. It's no different than customizing any vehicle. If you own it, you get to do whatever you want to it.
     
  25. TurtleFarmer

    TurtleFarmer Karting

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    I wouldn't position this discussion as Electric vs ICE. It's really a question of modification vs original.

    IMHO, this mod is not any different than dropping an LSX into a vintage 308. Could it be done? Yup. Would it be a "better" car? That depends on who's judging it.

    With an LSX, it'd certainly be a faster car. It'd be more reliable. It'd be more fuel efficient. It could make more noise (altho difficult to have the same exhaust note). But it wouldn't be original. Would it still be a Ferrari? Sure--just one with an engine swap.

    Electric power is just another new technology. No different from the introduction of overhead cams, super-chargers, electronic ignition, fuel injection. It's remarkable how it's somehow been positioned as such a divisive new technology--altho I suppose that 's always the case with new tech. I remember vividly when the hydroplanes switched from the radial pistoned Rolls-Royce Merlins & Griffins (Thunderboats!) to the quieter but faster turbine powered engines. The hydro fans really didn't like the change...until they started going a lot faster and winning all the races.

    As an owner of way too many vintage cars, I personally find all the various ownership philosophies wonderful. Most of the time, I love the challenge of restoring and maintaining such a complicated machine back to it's original glory. However, sometimes I'd prefer the modern conveniences of bluetooth audio connectivity, electronic ignition, LED lighting, and even, a more reliable powertrain. And sometimes, I really would love to have a ridiculously slammed bomber, with a blown engine and purple metallic paint with gold pinstripes. It's all quite fun and very few other hobbies offer the variety of approaches and communities that support those approaches.

    Basically, I'm super appreciative of the passion anyone has in the automobile world. It may not always be my personal cup of tea but the car ownership has always been about personal expression, and that's pretty cool.

    Lastly, there's this question of whether Enzo would have loved or hated it. Ferrari has always been first and foremost an ICE company...that famous quote from Enzo is definitely accurate (build engines and put wheels on them) . But they've also been about the pursuit of passion and looking toward the future. It may not excite everyone, but certainly better throttle response, improved handling, adjustable braking and faster audible feedback are all characteristics that will excite a pretty wide swath of car nuts. These are also all characteristics that favor an electric powerplant. And there's just the excitement that comes with new technology and new opportunities to re-imagine performance. I don't know if the elder Enzo would have approved, but I'm convinced that a young Enzo, starting today, would have been fully onboard.

    And aren't we all excited about the next Enzo?
     
  26. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    "Electric power is just another new technology" The computer side of it is new but the use of electric motors in cars is very OLD technology; electric cars were among the very earliest cars! They lost out to ICEs due to the same limitation of E cars today - battery capacity/range. If battery tech had been better in 1900, electric cars may have become the standard configuration! ;)

    In reality, Overhead Cams are much newer technology than electric cars! :)
     
  27. TurtleFarmer

    TurtleFarmer Karting

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    Fair point, @mike996. More accurate would have said "Electric power has reached a point in the modern era where it's viable as a powertrain technology". But that was just too long.
     
  28. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

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    #25 Martin308GTB, Jul 31, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
    The rude awakening with EVs is still waiting to happen. It will occur, when the batteries are due to replacement.
    Imagine a battery replacement on a 10 years old Tesla. We are talking about costs similar to a decent engine rebuild of a 308.
    I am really curious to see how many good cars will get scrapped, because it's just not economic to replace the tired batteries.
    Unfortunately the EV media hype doesn't address this point.
    BTW, the human circumstances around the raw material production for example in Africa prevent me from accepting that technology.

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
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