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The Resurrection of #22579

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by willrace, Sep 22, 2012.

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  1. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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    Dave in AZ?
    He has the Ansa rear sections at the best $$ I could find :)
     
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  3. Rock

    Rock Formula 3

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    more?
     
  4. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Going over the two invoices now that I'm a) No longer under the "My car is getting done the way I wanted, within the budget we agreed to, by an Expert who knows these cars" delusion, and b) In a much calmer, "acceptance" stage of I got railed (or choose your own euphemism), I'm noticing dates and recurring/redundant events. Since the job had originally been "You have a remaining budget of $42,500 to accomplish X, Y, and Z, to the standards agreed upon, do that, whether using slave labor or a magic wand, as long as it's done correctly", I hadn't worried too much about them until after delivery. That's when I noticed what prompted my comments in one of the posted emails (8/10/12 Time To Decide, Post #2) about "You did what you did, several times....You didn't do....what you said you did...." The car was bought with the complete, new engine ("running strong!!!"), new shock bushings, new front bearings/seals, etc., but big parts of each are on that first invoice.

    First invoice - 12/5/11 - Just prior to arranging shipping:
    Still finishing that new motor, somehow......This is typically a complete job from anyone else I've ever dealt with, or heard of, yet it's till incurring bills and finishing and tuning (special Duck Hunt Package tune, apparently)
    Prior to the new bushings arriving, from March 4-10 the suspension was taken off, bushings pressed out, and then reinstalled (13.5 hrs) at the beginning of March to send the car out for the fantastic bodywork we've seen (for about ten days, contrary to the month-plus the email updates and phone conversations led me to believe). Once the bushings did arrive, this was done again March 23-24 (another 14 hrs).....and/or April 6 (another 5 hrs).....and it looks like the front end was disassembled/reassembled again in May, to do the front brakes (but without rebuilding the bearings/hubs this time).
    I don't think I R&Red the suspension this many times on my ZX-GT2 when I was building it from a combination of Electramotive, stock, and fabricated parts......in my parents' garage........when I was 19 (actually, I did, but not much more, and I was learning it as I went).
    The shock bushings were replaced again March 31 (remember - it already had new bushings when I bought it), as were the front bearings on March 28(ditto).

    Or, it's all a load of "fill it to fit the bill Kurt expects" BS.

    Lines 55 and 56 are interesting - "all detail yet to be added, but this is all reassembly of the car following paint(55) / primarily interior reassembly(56)" which are 101.5 and 19 hours, and $5,937.75/1,111.50 respectively, which are both covered by those portions of work, in every car I've dealt with except for that ZX-GT2 chassis.
    Jumping to lines 119 and 120, and add $7,200 for the body/paint (remember Brett's ever-changing numbers in the thread?), and add $7,600 for the interior work (again, those changing numbers, and not including the materials I provided), and the numbers spent (per this invoice) on the body/paint are now $13,137.75, and $8,711.50 for the interior (still not including the leather and Ultrasuede).

    That Realization I mentioned near the end of Post #300 was the number at the end, and how well it coincides with what it should have been at this point.
    The total on the first Invoice came to $42,474.29. AMAZINGLY close the the $42,500 budget on top of buying the car at $17,500 to bring the all-in cost to the $60K target. Think about two things:
    - The numbers I just mentioned, compared to Bret's occasional claim that the car itself was $41K, and the restoration work was the $60K on top of that (which I've already noted somewhere that this would have taken it to $101K, which matches up with nothing, anywhere). The $42,474 is right about where it should have been at this stage (99% ready to ship), but only to support my understanding of/belief in our original deal, and would still play along and send those final fund transfers.
    - The timing - This is still well-before being told about the additional $24K surprise, and is what instigated the agreed cap to total the remaining finish-out cost of $5K, about which I voiced my displeasure at going $5K over the budget with that additional amount I had just agreed to, because I didn't want Brett to suffer financially. I got played - big time.
    Makes every single unconfirmable number provided by him, in the thread, and directly to me, even more suspect now.

    Second Invoice - 3/15/12 - Immediately prior to shipping.
    Reflects an agreed-upon (during the phone call just prior to the 12/9-ish transfer of another $20K willingly, and quickly, sent to Brett) cap of $5K, since this additional $5K now put the car over budget by that amount, but agreed-to prior to the "late December/January 6, 2012 email reminder $24K Surprise!!!". I still paid it, since I promised I would, and I didn't want what had, by that time, become $84,000 in transfers to be held hostage and not make the transport.......AND it was going to be such a well-done car, by a well-known expert...... D'OH!!!
    In this invoice: Still adjusting the door hinges and latches on both sides, and drilled new holes for the door sills (might answer the questions about that gapping/gaping passenger side piece), repairing(?!) the headlight mechanisms that had just been reassembled/reinstalled, and yet more work on that new engine again.

    It's like that Train Wreck thing - as much as I hate looking deeper, I just can't help it at times....then I ask my self "Why did I look again?"

    To put those numbers in perspective, the Yes, it really is time to decide. email. when I was pretty much fed up with the excuses, denials, deflections, and hearing how I had such a great value sitting here, and needed to force the issue in some direction.
    From: willrace@hotmail.com
    To: verabrett@yahoo.com; rob@ferrarichat.com; dave@circlesvineyards.com; willrace@hotmail.com
    Subject: Yes, it really is time to decide.
    Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 20:11:01 +0000

    It's been almost six months since this arrived here, and almost a week since receiving your email below. I'm through playing these games. If any of this was part of some twisted "plan", as you've suggested more than once, to get money out of you, or a better car than I paid for, both my money and my time would have been better spent over nearly two years (at this point) having it all done here the first time, by non-"experts" in this model.

    If this is what you want representing at least $65,000 of your work (over $89K, not even including the provided leather and Ultrasuede, if you somehow want to include Larry's new engine/clutch and the car itself) until I can afford to re-restore it, that is your decision. Let me know. I'm in the midst of expanding the facilities at my equestrian center, out of pocket, so the car's current state will be what it is for a while before I have the budget to get it into the shops. This won't come out of what's budgeted for the Boxer, though part of paying that "$24,000 surprise" already did, out of necessity.

    Math breakdown
    The basic numbers:
    $89K in funds transferred
    * $65 directly to shop
    * $24K directly to Larry
    2,292.49 Douglas leather (2 Angus Black, 4 Coldstream Grey)
    $??? Black Ultrasuede
    $91,292 just in what was spent on the car itself, not counting Ultrasuede
    add another $3,173 shipping and import costs
    $94,465 just at delivery to Norwood, not including Ultrasuede

    Starting from the $17,500 base that included Larry's engine "write-off of the majority of its cost", running up to the approximate high of $60K budgeted for this whole project, there's $42,500 left for paint and body, interior, and replacing the suspension bushings and a few other mechanical items. If I figured on roughly $10-12K for paint and body, given that it supposedly didn't need to be taken down to metal, we still have (at worst) $30K for the interior, suspension, and other mechanical.
    Let's take $9-10K for complete interior, including the leather and headliner (Bobby had already priced one for me on an earlier prospect), ignoring that those materials were provided and that aside from the A-pillars the rest was not touched. Now there's $20K (at worst) for the suspension and other mechanical.
    About $800 or so was spent for bearings inside the gearbox.
    What the heck - Let's throw in that $1,700 (roughly, including shipping, IIRC) windshield you "gave" me (I still haven't even counted the $400 I paid for its installation here yet, in any of these figures)
    Then, there's about $2,500 for the SS exhaust and coating the headers.
    We're now down to about $15,000 to finish the rest, if the paint/body and interior parts were each maxed-out.

    When we apply the numbers you've now claimed of $6,500 for the paint & body, and we're back up to well-over $20,000 remaining in the budget.
    Not counting the correction to your upholsterer's "executive decision", I think I recall being told that the interior work cost around $7,500 or so; I could be wrong. Let's add in the difference from the above figured $10K of $2,500, and we're now at about $22,500 left to spend of the original budget.
    That's one hell of an expensive suspension and brake refurbishment.

    I know from experience (see below) what doing the full suspension and brakes and clutch hydraulics and much more costs in a competent shop here, and they stand behind their work, although I have very rarely needed them to re-address anything (which was done without a peep, except for an unnecessary apology).
    For comparison, my three-page invoice for the Boxer's whole suspension, every nut, ES bushing (including the exact same shim/trim procedure on the lathe), ball joint, heim-joint, sway bar drop-link bushing (two of them fabricated in-shop from Delrin), bearings repacked or replaced, all related seals, CV joints repacked and with new boots, all six shocks fully rebuilt and revalved and threaded (and all six new springs), new clutch slave cylinder, new TR clutch master cylinder, rebuilding and polymer coating every brake caliper, brake hoses (just like those you provided, except with correct length and ends), rebuilding brake master cylinder, rebuilding brake booster, differential and hydraulic fluids and changing and bleeding all of them, fabricating a mount tie-down for the bigger battery, adjust ignition timing and balance fuel injection, new air filters and intake bellows, new belts for ancillaries and installation, and mounting four new tires was only $13,111.09, in 2008. And $373.04 of that was just shipping some of those parts around the country for special services. Notice that some of the above-mentioned were already included as part of that new motor, and some were well outside of anything done to #22579.

    Just for fun, let's also start from the $41,500 base and run up to both that same $60K, and the ultimate $89,000 (plus provided leather)...
    Starting with that $41,500, we would have $18,500 for finish-out. In the end, by we'd be $9,000 over the $60,000 budget, at $69,000, with everything absolutely maxed.
    When the actual numbers were applied, only $1,500 over, at $61,500 all-in.......Well-within tolerable for what I was expecting to arrive here.
    ......BUT, that end number is actually $89,000 in directly transferred funds, $65K of which went directly to you, ignoring the materials.
    Is my point clear enough yet?

    I have no need to "bury you on FChat"; presenting the emails specifying what was to be done, how the car was to be finished, and your own confirming emails, correlated with what's here in the metal, will do that. The post-delivery emails will drive the quality of the job home. The more I review those pre-shipping emails, the more I catch, and I'm tired of them.....and more resolved with each reading.
    Even without the dozens of phone conversations further detailing what I expected, the sheer amount of the funds sent (without hesitation) carries the weight of what kind of job was to be expected.

    I'm done rehashing the events and facts with you over the past few months, while I've tried to establish what it will take to properly correct this mess - body shops and painters spending their time going over this atrocity, and my time cumulatively with each one - I had already spent this time earning the money to pay an expert for this service. Fortunately, the meeting for the upholstery was quicker, with only one needed - Bobby is a known factor - but another hour to add to fixing this. If I'm going to spend more time on this, it will now go into the posts for FChat and elsewhere, where people can judge for themselves the quality of the work, and in the context of both the emails, and the time and expense expended on this car.

    #22579's Grand Debut is fast approaching.

    Kurt​

    I'll get B P 13 posted sometime soon, to add to the record, and some more relevant findings since the car's arrival. I wish I knew how to combine pics of #22579 and the blue 400GT I shot at Norwood last week for side-by-side comparisons of several interior bits, and a few of the exterior..
     
  5. Rock

    Rock Formula 3

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    what was the hourly rate?
     
  6. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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    I'm thinkin' $58.50
     
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  8. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yep - of which quite a lot was made of how his regular rate was being discounted.
    Easy to do when you're not really doing everything you're billing for.

    Someone here was kind enough to convert the xl file bills to pdf for me, and there was a second version of the second bill hiding somewhere, for a lower amount, same stuff. More support for my "fill it to fit the bill Kurt expects" theory.

    S i g h . . . . . .
     
  9. Fave

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  10. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Going over the two versions of the "final" invoice is a small headache.....Going over them against the first invoice gives me one pretty quickly, even in small doses to process how many times the same thing was done, whether it was charged and listed once or twice, and how many very different dates are given that XYZ was performed.

    For instance, the Dec. 21 version goes through January 4 (maybe Dec. 21 was just the start date, and redated later), but that new motor included in the initial purchase is still getting finished and billed, but was being driven and broken-in for months, from what I was told. It would potentially/partially explain why it ran so badly once it was here and still on the Canadian gas - it actually may not have been driven much, if at all. Good thing I treated it as a totally new, unseasoned motor out of paranoia for its first thousand or so kilometers/miles here.
    For the record, I have finally dared to touch redline, 3 times, but was waiting for ugly sounds each time (made for a very "exciting" drive).

    Other updates:
    Well, it looks like all of my above concerns have just been rendered irrelevant.

    Since I didn't know if it was just another BS line to get me to feel guilty for Brett's exhaustive efforts to achieve perfection :p, two Thursdays ago (Nov. 1), I was looking under the car to verify the brake lines/adapters story. Found something else.
    Once it was cool enough to drive the car with the windows up, I couldn't figure out why it was still so loud, since just a couple of the middle mufflers had been deleted........AWESOME sound when you're on it, an almost soothing rumble (except for the misses) at idle, if slightly loud.....but roaring at any open throttle at all, like a NASCAR ride. With the windows up, it should have been pleasantly restrained, even dignified, until you stick your foot in it, and then, twelve cylinders roaring.

    Turns out that ALL SIX were "deleted" - it's just slip-fit pipe until the two visible mufflers after the rear wheels to the tips.

    Now, I know why that Nouvolari exhaust "system" was only $2,000 (Line 121), once I looked at those invoices more closely.

    A set of 8 new, correct brake lines, of the correct length (actually, 1/2" longer, since I don't know what mods Brett's shop supposedly did to the chassis mounts), and with the correct ends are on their way from Glenn at Nouvolari/ExoticCarGear. They should arrive at Norwood this week, to be installed when James is "final tuning" the motor (recall that it had only been quickly tuned to run enough to drive to shops for estimates to re-restore the car).
    The mufflers under the passenger compartment will follow later, now that I'll have time to hear some other systems out there, and decide how many of the six I want in those sections.

    Driving it Saturday, over to Boardwalk to drop it off for the FCA 50th Anniversary photo shoot, highlighted that it will come close to overheating in construction and TCU's new Big 12 game traffic, even in the low 80s, so a bigger radiator likely will be in its future if the new/rebuilt/?? water pump checks out.
     
  11. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #309 willrace, Nov 23, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
    Since today is unofficially Thanksgiving Leftovers Day, I thought I'd finish-off some more of that almost two year old turkey, and bring out the leftover BP13 email. You've seen some of the pics already in this thread, but here they're presented in context of the email than contained them.

    Perhaps for desert, the first of two, no, three (wait, two are the same. But, wait!! They're not!!) oft-requested invoices, which like the most interesting delicacies and wines, are complex, with layers and revelations as you delve deeper and recognize many familiar things you've already experienced at least once.......or twice.
    Like the desert table with Aunt Marge's Pecan Pie vs. Mary's Apple Crisp, there are even competing versions of the second "Invoice" for a snack over the weekend. Choices, choices.....
    After yesterday, remember to pace yourselves.

    From: willrace@hotmail.com
    To: verabrett@yahoo.com; willrace@hotmail.com
    Subject: B P 13
    Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 03:12:37 +0000

    More black leather not used where it was supposed to be.....
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    - (0422) & (0423) Under the dash (remember, top pad in UltraSuede, everything below in the same black leather as the console, seat-face bits, and all armrests?).
    I checked, and the glovebox door was done!........you just have to pull it open against the drag against the fluffy console side.

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    - (0391) Found it (the missing leather) in the seatback inserts, which were supposed to be black UltraSuede, just like the.......
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    - (0430) ....package tray.
    Good news; Between both seat inserts and that rear shelf, there's probably enough to finish the back half of the console, console tray, and lower dash, if it can be reused.

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    - (0428) It's speaking, calling to me from across the car.....It's saying........
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    - (0441) & (0442) .......Pencil goes here.
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    Tried pressing them down into the fluffy dash, both sprung right back to the gaps.

    There's a little more, but you've got the gist by now, and I don't have it in me to take more pics. I sincerely hope the mechanical was done much better.

    This restoration isn't close to right, isn't close to the showcase for your shop we (well, I) hoped it would be, and isn't near what anyone was expecting from all of the time, materials and detailing provided, and expense.
    Collectively, this isn't anything that can't be fixed, it just won't be easy or quick, nor should it have been necessary.
    This was also before I realized that the backs of the seats were not done at all, and were still the original, dried-out leather, so at least the scuffs weren't in new leather. Whew!!

    Brett's classic "The, uhhhhhhhh, shipping company did all that; it wasn't like that at alllllllll ! ! !"-type response to BP series emails, and my follow-up posting of the heavily-marked pre-shipping inspection sheet are the second half of Post #183
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141778590&postcount=183

    Who's still got room for desert?
    Just a quick taste.....Don't want to overdo it in one sitting.

    <URP> 'scuse me. :D

    [size=-7]18,865[/size]
     
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  13. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #310 willrace, Nov 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The first Invoice, already noted in Post #303, so I'll just repost what's relevant for review to save the scrolling:

    First invoice - 12/5/11 - Just prior to arranging shipping:
    Still finishing that new motor, somehow......This is typically a complete job from anyone else I've ever dealt with, or heard of, yet it's till incurring bills and finishing and tuning (special Duck Hunt Package tune, apparently)
    Prior to the new bushings arriving, from March 4-10 the suspension was taken off, bushings pressed out, and then reinstalled (13.5 hrs) at the beginning of March to send the car out for the fantastic bodywork we've seen (for about ten days, contrary to the month-plus the email updates and phone conversations led me to believe). Once the bushings did arrive, this was done again March 23-24 (another 14 hrs).....and/or April 6 (another 5 hrs).....and it looks like the front end was disassembled/reassembled again in May, to do the front brakes (but without rebuilding the bearings/hubs this time).
    I don't think I R&Red the suspension this many times on my ZX-GT2 when I was building it from a combination of Electramotive, stock, and fabricated parts......in my parents' garage........when I was 19 (actually, I did, but not much more, and I was learning it as I went).
    The shock bushings were replaced again March 31 (remember - it already had new bushings when I bought it), as were the front bearings on March 28(ditto).

    Or, it's all a load of "fill it to fit the bill Kurt expects" BS.

    Lines 55 and 56 are interesting - "all detail yet to be added, but this is all reassembly of the car following paint(55) / primarily interior reassembly(56)" which are 101.5 and 19 hours, and $5,937.75/1,111.50 respectively, which are both covered by those portions of work, in every car I've dealt with except for that ZX-GT2 chassis.
    Jumping to lines 119 and 120, and add $7,200 for the body/paint (remember Brett's ever-changing numbers in the thread?), and add $7,600 for the interior work (again, those changing numbers, and not including the materials I provided), and the numbers spent (per this invoice) on the body/paint are now $13,137.75, and $8,711.50 for the interior (still not including the leather and Ultrasuede).

    That Realization I mentioned near the end of Post #300 was the number at the end, and how well it coincides with what it should have been at this point.
    The total on the first Invoice came to $42,474.29. AMAZINGLY close the the $42,500 budget on top of buying the car at $17,500 to bring the all-in cost to the $60K target. Think about two things:
    - The numbers I just mentioned, compared to Bret's occasional claim that the car itself was $41K, and the restoration work was the $60K on top of that (which I've already noted somewhere that this would have taken it to $101K, which matches up with nothing, anywhere). The $42,474 is right about where it should have been at this stage (99% ready to ship), but only to support my understanding of/belief in our original deal, and would still play along and send those final fund transfers.
    - The timing - This is still well-before being told about the additional $24K surprise, and is what instigated the agreed cap to total the remaining finish-out cost of $5K, about which I voiced my displeasure at going $5K over the budget with that additional amount I had just agreed to, because I didn't want Brett to suffer financially. I got played - big time.
    Makes every single unconfirmable number provided by him, in the thread, and directly to me, even more suspect now.​

    I'd like to express my gratitude, again, to the member who transferred these invoices to pdf format so I could read/analyze them more easily, and post them.
    (Edit: Sorry, it's posting the pdf as a pic like I wanted, but it shows to be in the link at bottom)


    Once things calm down with the Expiring 2012 Tax, Asset, and Estate Planning Thrash, I should be able to spend a little more than a few minutes at a time to compile the side-by-side shots for comparison to correct 400 Series cars, so I can get them to the member who was kind enough to offer his PS services.
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  14. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Just kill me now.
    We all get it Kurt, I've told you a bunch of times. This isn't getting you closer to your goal.
    I'm done, I'll bet I'm not alone.. This is my last post on this thread.
     
  15. Flo400

    Flo400 Formula Junior

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    You'll get a pretty high quality Nouvolari exaust system that looks fully original from front to back (no mufflers deleted) in stainless steel and everything coated in black for about that. Deleting some of this stuff should save you some money.
     
  16. Fave

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    When your out 90k I bet you will be crying as well.... For a long time.
     
  17. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #314 willrace, Nov 25, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
    Sorry, Dave.
    Any goal other than warning others about this type of practice, and documenting this thoroughly to that end, went by the wayside long ago, as I stated from the beginning. I want this to be searchable, referenced, and remembered - over $90K worth of remembrance, as some have pointed out in this thread, and more in PMs and emails.

    Anyone new to Ferraris, or the 365/400/412 or 308 series in particular (his "specialties" as I recall), need to have this available for what to watch for when considering buying or restoring one, not only from Brett Swaykoski and Gran Turismo in Ontario, but anyone else who plays this kind of game. For that reason alone, I will keep it visible on the first page for quite a while, if only with a "Bump", to facilitate it being easy, quick, and above all, obvious to find. Consider it the Lighthouse for anyone navigating toward a good 400, keeping them from running aground on the Brettski Rocks, and others that can't be seen until too late, the damage done (literally, in more than one case of which I'm now aware).

    I wish all of those who have contacted me would chime-in about their experiences, but that is their prerogative, and I will respect their concerns and decisions, as some are semi-local to Brett Swaykoski and Gran Turismo, though others are much farther away.
     
  18. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I've already priced both a whole system (for reference) and the center sections, and it's considerably more than the $2,000 shown in the invoice, but likely due to shipping and import tariffs/taxes. Even getting my Boxer exhaust shipped from Bell cost a bit, and it's fairly compact.

    Those rear sections are Nouvolari stainless, as far as I know (I'd like to hold on to that belief), so its' just the center sections I'll need. Unfortunately, buying it this way (just partials) will cost quite a bit more than just a whole system would have.
    It will come, in time.
     
  19. Fave

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    Where was this ?
     
  20. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If you're asking about the exhaust pricing, it was with Glenn at Nouvolari USA, one of the site sponsors, and where I got the correct brake lines. Even with the FChat pricing (yep!! :D), it's a chunk, though I can't recall the exact numbers at the moment, since it would be a while before ordering the under-car sets. I'll reprice them then, and also have a better idea of what the correct tuning does to the sound, and possibly some Dynamat inside.
    The car is at Norwood right now for those brake lines and the finish tuning.

    I also want to hear some other 400s out there (hint hint Dave hint hint)
     
  21. Fave

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    New brake lines?
     
  22. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Kurt
    I first mention the reason in Post #2, near the end of the 3rd paragraph of the C&Ped full Time to decide email within:
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=141765142&highlight=adapters#post141765142
    Also within that same post/email, a little further down (note what I placed in bold for this):
    Teflon brake lines - addressed in Deflection & Stepping of April 16, 2012:

    As for the brake lines - Those should have been a few quick phone calls. I offered to have them made by a local company that has made me brake and hydraulic lines for three decades, but you had "already handled it". When they came in shorter than needed, rather than returning them and having them remade correctly by the vendor, you had already had your shop modify the mounts on the body. Around the beginning of this year, I found out that not only were the lines too short, they required adapter fittings to fit to the lines and/or calipers - a whole separate reason to have returned them in the first place. Wrong is Wrong. Accepting Wrong on this level is a Hobbyist mistake, as was accepting the interior in its state, and the body/trim finish-out in its state.​

    .....and again at both the very top and the very end of Post#23:
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141766529&postcount=23

    It's referenced a few other times, but comes down to trusting incorrect lines, of the incorrect length (according to what Brett Swaykoski of Gran Turismo told me), which required not only changing of the mounts on the chassis, but also adapters for the threads on each end of every hose - again, all according to what I was told by Brett Swaykoski of Gran Turismo, and I confirmed (the adapters) by finally crawling under the car. Why the wrong lines were installed anyway, is just baffling.
    The new lines are built with the correct ends and threads.

    As I asked at the top of Post #23: "How much confidence would YOU have in it?"

    I'll give my impressions of the new lines after I get some seat time with them.

    [size=-7]19,893[/size]
     
  23. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 12, 2010
    4,052
    Tarana
    Full Name:
    L. Ike Hunt
    Ah yes now I remember.
     
  24. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    52,325
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    closing thread until more info comes out from either party. thanks.
     
  25. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    52,325
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Kurt, please don't follow around Brett, if you have something new to say on your conflict with Brett I can open that other thread for a little. Let's keep everything contained there. Thanks.
     
  26. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    I for one view your tirade as tiresome and frankly quite outrageous, I am surprized that it has been allowed on the forum for you to do this. Stop it and give us a break.

    Far from your tirade warning to others what could happen to poor unsuspecting owners It is actually a warning to any unsuspecting workshop that they could end up with someone like you as a customer. Be warned workshops!
    You should appologies but I bet your too big for that!
     
  27. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    Please note
    Previous post was in response to Kurts comments.
     
  28. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 21, 2006
    22,284
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    #325 willrace, Jan 8, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
    I have neither cried for, nor even asked for any salvation or protection from Rob (and likely others), as Brett just has (his "current status"- writing PM to Rob Lay gave that away). Rob was made aware of the situation early-on to verify that I wasn't making something up just for ?????? reason, for when this came to light if I felt it necessary.
    Warnings of bad shops and practices are valid, like it or not.
    I have the documented proof in my garage, and no apology is needed, nor tendered.

    In this thread, I simply referenced a provable, repeated declaration of "good value" for comparison to the person claiming such a value, with his biases, based on very personal experience, and experiences shared with me by others. This metric is simple, and needed for context when someone is claiming a value that is already in question by others.
    In that function, my posts should return and remain, as they purposely do not go into the details which can be discovered in "that other thread".

    As for "following Brett around", I'm here, and have been here, in appreciation of this model. When I see Brett posting BS, I have the relevant context in-hand to call him on it, available for anyone to see for themselves, for the next couple of months.

    As for the laughable warning not to do business with someone with a high standard, and will work with that shop when issues arise, let me know - I'll give you a few references to call who can provide invoices. Remember to ask about my patience, promptness on payment, and above all, promoting their good work to others for future business.

    THIS is the highjacking of this thread, NOT my original post.
    I would suggest removing this post with those that prompted it, and replacing my original post. Introducing such relevant context here is no more out of place than calling-out the pump-and-dump brokers who invade the Business section occasionally.
     

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