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The Resurrection of #22579

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by willrace, Sep 22, 2012.

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  1. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
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    Most of you on this forum have noticed that over the past few years, I've inquired about the occasional 400 series that I had found, looking to add one to the 512BBi. I've wanted one since the early 80's, when I realized that my "ideal" two-car garage would have a mid-engined Ferrari for play, and a "more dignified" coupe for daily driving/business/family. My quest began in earnest back in 2007, but my list of "wants" was fairly specific, and what came on the market rarely fit more than a couple of those wants. After passing on many, and missing a few, I resigned myself to "close", and if the right opportunity came-up, that "want" list could be effectively created.

    My "Want" list for this other side of The Garage:

    5 speed
    Carbureted (no computers!!!!)
    NOT red or black (though I had considered a couple of black ones previously), preferably TDF
    Air Conditioning (Being in Texas, fairly important)
    Rebuilt Motor - for reliability and performance
    Rebuilt mechanically - again, for reliability
    Sunroof​


    Enter a shop and its owner who were establishing a presence as particularly knowledgeable, passionate, and capable, in the 365/400/412 series especially, on FChat.
    Because of what I saw in the thread The rebuild of #40557, I contacted him via FChat PM (Nov 27) about any prospective candidates, essentially to build my "brand new 30+ year old car", as if I could order it from the factory today, but taking advantage of all of the insight that nearly 40 years of collective hindsight could provide:

    ...After looking for the "right" 400 5sp, for quite a while, I've decided that about the only way that's going to happen any time soon, if ever, is to have it built.
    I followed the build of 40557, and was wondering what a repainted, retrimmed, remotored, rebushed, re.....well, a build like what 40557 appeared to be, would run. I had started this message a few days ago, and ironically, the thread resurfaces as I'm putting the finishing touches on it before sending to you.
    Probably would want to start with a U.S.-registered car, to avoid the importation/title issues, though.

    In the thread, "are there decent 365/400s for $20K anymore?" you had stated
    "we'll make a nice car out of it and a very logical guy will pay $45K for it...and just drive it...
    rather than spend 5 years, season after season, chipping away at all the stuff that we do.
    and he'll have saved a ton of money, nevermind aggrevation and frustration, along the way..."
    which is about perfect for what I want to do, as it seems that everything is covered, if I'm understanding that correctly.

    Ideally, I'd like a carb car (even if we have to start with an injected car), TDF blue/Grey Interior, with nothing (well, close to it) to worry me for the next few years, ethanol-heavy fuel, dual AC, and sliding-cable HVAC controls, included. The complete list of "want" specs is a little longer, but not much.
    Basically, a brand-new (upgraded where opportunity/materials presents itself), 30+ year old car that I'll drive regularly....​


    In subsequent phone calls and emails, Brett told me that he neither had anything, nor knew of anything for sale anywhere, that was close to my list, and that there were very few of the carbed 400GTs even made with the 5-speed........BUT that he had one of them in his shop which could be a perfect candidate for building that new 30 year old car. SCORE ! ! ! ! The owner badly needed capital for his business, and was willing to take a big hit on the car, essentially walking away from most of the new motor expense. DOUBLE SCORE ! ! ! (even though I've been there, and it sucks - I didn't get near what I could have when I similarly had to liquidate some assets, either). #22579 had a few posts about it here on FChat, so I knew a bit about its oddball "Automatic with a 5-speed" intrigue, (which actually appealed to me). The resale red paint was "serviceable" but wouldn't matter - the price left a lot of room to fix that as part of its "return to dignity" as I put it.
    For context, I had also considered a Jensen Interceptor and Jaguar MK2 within roughly the same price range, and as much as I'd love to have one, either of two very nice 330GTs on the market around that time was more than I wanted to spend, both just shy of $90K, and I would probably use it less (Remember this for a few paragraphs).

    For whatever my choice was going to be, I had budgeted a comparable amount to purchasing a new M3, or even another Audi - S5 this time (both mid $50s-65K), as my all-in cost, and rationalized the finished 400GT based upon the off-a-cliff depreciation race to $10K in about 4-5 years versus a well-restored and upgraded, and maintained 400's known (historically projectable) floor of about $35-40K, assuming they don't actually start to appreciate. Plus, the 400 wins in character over the computerized appliance, every day. The decision required a little time and thought, but not too much. From first mention of #22579 to when I was committed, with a plan of action, the car bought, and Bill Of Sale received, was 3 weeks.
    An early (Dec. 13, 2010) email reflected the agreed-to purchase price and what was needed to "get the ball rolling" on the restoration:
    "it seems a Bill of Sale for the price of the car (say $17.5K) and seperate invoices for the restoration is best for you guys down there... so, i suggest a deposit of $17.5K...that buys you the car...then we proceed from there with the restoration and invoicing...
    sound good?
    "​

    The Bill Of Sale email (Dec. 20,2010) again confirmed "the purchase price is $17, 500 USD and the current Ontario registration will pass directly from Larry to you".

    Brett told me that the initial $17,500 funds transfer would be used partially to get work started, and partially as a deposit to the seller, who would receive his remainder from later installments. From a business perspective this certainly makes sense, as costs would be incurred along the way. Most importantly, I had someone in charge of a restoration I didn't have time to oversee, and he had represented himself well as an expert in these cars, rather than how the Boxer is progressing with me as the one assessing and determining "Is this right? Is this how this goes?" on a regular basis.
    My 400 would be done correctly by a seasoned expert in 400s: It would be done thoroughly, correcting what time and others had done to it over its life, by an expert who knew what was right; I would have my 30+ year old "new car", and I wouldn't have to worry about a thing for a while......just as if I'd been able to time-travel back to the 70s and order the car my way, and still maintain all of that hindsight we've learned over the 30+ years since, though I'd pay a premium for the privilege.

    By January, all was well, moving along, and I was a happy camper. Hiccups along the way were dealt with, mostly picking the paint color, and when the original supplier for the leather for both the 400 and the Boxer changed the terms, necessitating finding another suitable supplier, but events like these are often parts of any restoration. Time lost to issues like this added to my 400's stay in Canada, but it was getting done.
    Plans were made and discussed to open a thread detailing the progress as it was happening, since such comprehensive threads, even those of the non-frame-off-concours-level type, and even more rare for the 365/400/412 series, but real life got in the way (a similar thread was planned for the Boxer, but fell to the wayside for the same reasons). However, this isn't the thread I was writing excitedly in my head for over a year, but one that screamed to be created by the car itself, once here - all $92,000+ of it.
    No, that wasn't a misprint.
    No, it wasn't shipped back to Marenello.
     
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  3. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    The purpose of this type of reintroduction of #22579 is best explained by the following recent email to Brett, after many, many others detailing the issues with what rolled out of the enclosed transport, following its highly anticipated arrival to its new home in Texas:


    From: kurt williams <willrace@hotmail.com>
    To: Brettski <verabrett@yahoo.com>; kurt williams <willrace@hotmail.com>; rob@ferrarichat.com; dave@circlesvineyards.com
    Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 2:34:32 PM
    Subject: Time to decide.

    Brett,

    I've included Dave and Rob primarily as observers, not participants, in this situation - Dave, as the person most expert and enthusiastic about this 365/400/412 series, and Rob, as an outright enthusiast of the Ferrari marque, and the owner of the medium/website we all share, which celebrates the marque itself and its owners, their passions, and experiences.
    Rob has seen the car and was given as much of a brief as could be shared before we baked from the heat (his young daughter was with him). Aside from them, as promised, only Will, who assisted me in retrieving the car from Norwood and I know outside of FChat, and James at Norwood are the only non-body/paint/interior people who have seen the car outside of the limited number of random people in public who know nothing of the situation, and only one other close friend with a background in classics. Many of the regular "2nd Saturday Cars & Breakfast" Ft Worth group are, and have been, aware of the car, but of those, only Will has seen it, as already noted, leading to the running joke of whether it exists at all.
    Both Dave and Rob have an open invitation to view all emails, as they sit in the exact, sole account I've used for this, regarding everything concerning this car and its progress - I cannot alter any of this, in any way, and is how I've conducted almost all business for years for this reason - the only "by design" involved. Neither has yet received any of those original 13 detailed emails from April 3-10, 2012, nor the follow-ups, outlining many of the issues.
    If requested, I will also take them to Frost Bank to confirm the transfers of funds to yours, and Larry's, accounts, of which all but the "$24,000 surprise - You still owe Larry for the car you bought and paid for in 2010" were sent within 48 hours of a simple request from you, without hesitation, usually within 24 hours. If there was a "by design" as you suggest, this would not be the way to do such a scheme, as it depends solely upon "getting you" by convincing you to return some portion of the significant funds delivered to you in "the set-up".

    There were never any "FChat threats" during the build - I was genuinely excited about the anticipated arrival of what I was expecting, especially after such a lengthy, detailed build, and disappointed when we had the setback with the seats (we'll come back to that), as any of the Ft Worth group will attest. Its future exposure in this mostly-still-current, as-delivered state of condition on FChat and elsewhere would simply be exposure with verifiable context; its perception will be what it is, and in the context of Time and Funds expended to achieve results as specified in numerous emails, as approved and shipped as complete by you, and acknowledged by you on the pre-shipping inspection sheet from the shippers, directly conflicting with your April 10, 2012 re: B P 13 first response to the April emails: "....i assure you, there are some marks on the car that were not there when we delivered the car... and no mention of them was made on the shipping paperwork...", for which I provided a scan of my copy of that heavily-marked sheet with your signature.
    I have no need to lift, or point, a finger, such is the disparity.

    From the beginning, what I wanted, and so expressed, was "pretty much a New 30+ year old car, with material and design upgrades made possible with the advances of those 30+ years of technology and hindsight" (Movement on 400GT... email of Dec 12, 2010, and echoed in several telephone conversations), even before committing to buy #22579. Much of the emphasis was on Mechanical, because, as I noted, so many restorations are appearance only, and this one was to be driven regularly, and I didn't want mechanical concerns. Except for the doubt created by the body/paint treatment, and disregard for the interior instructions, this has probably been met for the most part (excepting a very small oil leak from the new motor even as it sat in James' shop prior to bringing it home, the newly discovered electrical issues, and the custom brake lines which still required adapters and moving their locations on the chassis - I still can't bring myself to look at how much those lines cost me due to this).

    Beyond the Mechanical, I emphasized from the start that I didn't want anything coming back through the paint in a couple of years, such as sanding marks or bubbles from bad prep, which I even had seen on several show cars. I was clear that I didn't want a mega-coat, hand-rubbed, mirror-like show finish, since this was going to be driven, but a good, regular-production finish on a contemporary car. As noted in the emails of April 3-10, 2012, there are runs, paint over cracks, paint over chips, and I even ran through how (in Deflections & Stepping, April 16, 2012), if we could ignore all of that and hypothetically assume a perfect paint job with perfect prep prior to shooting, that hypothetical perfect paint was ruined in every sector of the car (save the majority of the roof) afterwards.
    Several issues, such as filling the antenna and mirror holes, addressing minor imperfections, and such, convinced me that all of the panel alignment and potential cracking issues were being dealt with. The time allotted and taken certainly would imply the same. Your description of getting the "blood troughs" down the sides correct, and your satisfaction with getting them right, gave me confidence that I had chosen the right person for this job.

    Because these issues were simply painted over, those underlying cracks in either layers of paint/primer/filler, or the panels themselves, the car will be taken fully down to metal, since otherwise we're just carving out canyons to reach those unaddressed problems and then patching on top of them in all of those spots, plus all of those where the paint was ruined after the fact. Thus far, we haven't found anything that sounds like a rust issue (aside from from surface rust at the leading edge of on of the doors).
    You state that your painter"....just put his head into his hands..." over the paint/body work he delivered. What was his reaction when he was told to spray over cracks and chips? Doors that neither line up nor close (driver's side) or sag over 1/4" until slammed upward into place by the latch? Did he see what was done, after his paint work, at least once on every single corner of the car with a buffer? I know he had to see where the LF fender was buffed through the white and the two scratches in the rear vertical part of the trunklid - he shot clear over them. Was he screaming in angst when the trim was reinstalled to cut into the new paint, or knocked off in chunks around the engine bay? Was it another "executive decision" to shape the body line that runs back from mid-door with a hump over the gas door on one side, and balance it with a corresponding dip on the passenger side?
    I didn't know at the time, nor need to know, that you paid $6,500 for that paint job, but as I noted in those April emails, whatever you paid, neither of us got what we paid for, and even if you had, it was promptly killed during reassembly.
    Whatever this "18 stage paint job" is, it must be an interesting new species, and not comparable to what all competent shops across the country turn out, every day, on repaired late-model cars, or as I said "industry standard". I saw several of those this morning, when I stopped by to inquire about that "18 stage" thing; two Audis, a Cadillac, a BMW, and a Honda(or Acura) had exactly what I expected.

    I was assured that the underlying paint and body were sound and "serviceable", but with the starting point of $17,500, I had room to make this that "new 30 year old car" I wanted, as if ordered from the factory. $17,500 PLUS ANOTHER $24,000 at the "end" of the build would have drastically changed that base, and I would not have started on a restoration of what is a $60,000 car (on the best of days) with a starting point already at $41,500. "Larry was taking a huge loss on his car with a fresh engine rebuild because he needed capital for his business" was the reason for the $17,500 price; I now know that this was a speculation car that Larry financed, which turned into a small loss to get him out of it. I was misled on both the context and the sale price, for which I received the Bill Of Sale on Dec 20, 2010 for the $17,500.

    Prior to purchasing the car, we discussed my rationale for spending $50-60K on the most unloved of Ferraris vs. the same amount on a new car - Merc, BMW, another Audi, etc. - and aside from the lacking character of the cars, it was the depreciation curve, and the known slope of each (this was even referenced in the Deflection & Stepping email of April 16, 2012) . Commodity cars drop like a rock in their first 3-5 years before the curve relaxes, whereas the 400GT has experienced this already, and tomorrow's $8K BMW is up against a $25-30K vintage 400, assuming that the 400 doesn't begin to appreciate. From that $17.5K base point, the resulting $55-60K all-in total investment in the 400 made sense, and was reiterated many times over the course of the build, and thus was the focus of my questions about "within the mid-$50s to $60K budget", almost always asked in that exact way, so there could be no mistake of my meaning.
    Unless you've completely forgotten those many conversations, you know that.

    Back to those "freebies" for which I was "not charged":
    The seats and the "leather nightmare that i was forced to deal with on your behalf...": We lost nearly a month while sourcing the leather after Aeristo changed the terms of the purchase of the hides for both the Boxer and the 400. I dealt with this, while only the interior work was held up on your end, and other work was still progressing. The only "leather nightmare" you had to deal with was either the leather being lost in Customs for a week, or most likely, the inability of your upholsterer to get the patterns correct, and correcting their "executive decision" to change the pattern and burn through much of the leather provided, rather than stopping on bad result number one. You sent those "ski-boat seat covers" in the trunk, though not much can be salvaged from them.

    Teflon brake lines - addressed in Deflection & Stepping of April 16, 2012:

    As for the brake lines - Those should have been a few quick phone calls. I offered to have them made by a local company that has made me brake and hydraulic lines for three decades, but you had "already handled it". When they came in shorter than needed, rather than returning them and having them remade correctly by the vendor, you had already had your shop modify the mounts on the body. Around the beginning of this year, I found out that not only were the lines too short, they required adapter fittings to fit to the lines and/or calipers - a whole separate reason to have returned them in the first place. Wrong is Wrong. Accepting Wrong on this level is a Hobbyist mistake, as was accepting the interior in its state, and the body/trim finish-out in its state.​


    Energy Suspension bushings - With information provided through Mike at Norwood (Jan 19, 2011) and then Matt at Energy Suspension, I sent you the part numbers for these, with specs and where they "should" have been available per ES (Jan 24, 2011) and a link to their online catalog. Your Canadian distributor, Keystone, lost the order. It's part of dealing with businesses and vendors, and not "(my) fiasco that (you) had to sort out...." as a "freebie" or "gift", which applies to many such claims here.

    $89,000 in funds, $65,000 of which was sent directly to your accounts says that you "gave" me nothing.
    The difference, $24,000 wired to Larry on Feb. 3, 2012, was to "purchase" a car I had already purchased over a year prior, as already covered. Additionally, the 6 hides from Douglas are not included in that number, nor is the enclosed shipping, really necessary only for the car I was expecting, not the car that was delivered.

    Damaged cars, with real damage, have been repaired and finished in much less time, with much better result, for far less.

    You did what you did.
    You didn't so what you didn't do, though you said you did.
    You did things several times for the one time it was finally done correctly, if it even was.
    All of which, I was billed for, and paid, with no hesitation - until that second time I had to buy my car.
    I've already, willingly, paid more that the going price for the best 400 series that can be found, just for the restoration of #22579, to get the car I wanted. And, I've said that I would be covering the future costs of the upper part of the passenger compartment, now that I've seen it, except for the A-pillars, which are still in the original old leather instead of the specified (and already paid for) Ultrasuede. And I'm still sitting on the costs of installing that windshield, contrary to our agreement prior to shipping. I've also covered the minimal cost to realign the front bonnet so James could adjust the engine, which, btw, I told you would likely be necessary (as early as the December 2, 2010 email) due to our different fuel types and an assumed difference in altitude. I expected the basics to be at least close, but even with Canadian fuel still the only fuel in the car, it ran as described (James described the backfiring as "shooting ducks", as would those who witnessed its brief drive to the gas station) in our last telephone conversation on April 3,2012, and the ignition timing was off side-to-side, if not the balance of the carbs as well (which are really irrelevant, since it was known it would need to be retuned), but was how it was driven while still in Canada (your elev ~715', a difference of ~115', well-within the spread of any daily run around flat Texas).

    As before, I can do this exercise for any deflection or excuse you provide, and also as before, will even point out where I was wrong about something or an issue for which you were not responsible. I've even tried to allow for a certain amount of "unawareness" that anything was amiss, however, your responses are ever-more resembling the opposite. I've worked to find a non-punitive, no-devastating solution for you, the whole time under the guise that "Brett tried, gave it his best shot, but he's not ready for Prime Time, yet. Let's get this done and move on." Your footwork to deflect and avoid "stepping up" gives me new concern, and doubt.

    This only serves to deepen the sapping depression and anger of this situation, and thus, my resolve, at having this on top of having to choose a bodyshop and then take the time to oversee the steps of the re-restoration - exactly what I was avoiding by giving this job to an expert with unique knowledge of this particular series. And I'm starting nearly two years from when I started this before, and almost a year from when I should have been just hopping in and going for a worry-free drive in the car I wanted, and have already paid dearly for.
    Be glad that this falls under "labor of love" on my part. Very glad - You have the opportunity to shape the outcome of this venture, and the thread I had proposed long ago to chronicle this car's return to dignity (as I put it at some point), since such threads are rare for most cars, and arguably non-existent for this model. It would have already been started and out there, if I hadn't been busy with more important things (the kind that pay for indulgences like this), and more people would have been asking for updates than the relatively limited number thus far. You will still be credited as a Consultant; it's probably best that it not go much beyond that, but that's your call.

    As for your proposal to "bring the car back here and get you the paint job you wanted", my reasons for not doing so have been made clear already - You were already entrusted to do the job correctly, as an expert (and enthusiast) in this model so there would be no "Is this correct?" issues, and the result is here. I would expect nothing different, except possibly not even getting the car back at worst, and adding to my already ridiculous outlay IF the job was done fully as prescribed down here, at this time. I have no reason to expect the latter any more, except as an optimist on the back end of "Fool me once......." That still doesn't even address the interior, either.


    You've known that this pont was coming, and had time to prepare for it. Are you going to "step-up" and cover correcting this atrocity, or leave me hanging, my money in your pocket for a "job well-billed"?
    It's time to decide where this is going, in the very near future. The result will be out there much longer.

    Kurt​


    Now that the current state of this car is evident from the above recent email, I'll cover #22579's journey thus far. I want to ensure that the shop responsible for what you'll see receives all of the appropriate credit. The genesis of creating this particular thread was the passing of my deadline to Brett, on September 13, 2012, necessitated by the eventual culmination of six months of Brett's dancing, deflecting, denying, false promise to make good (including an astoundingly, ludicrously insulting offer), and finally, effectively telling me to pound sand, as of today, since this atrocity was delivered. I guess I was just slow to realize that he was still working the hustle.

    ps - The timing of Newman's recent "$1500 + 500% ferrari tax paint job" in the 308 Section
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=379748 was just a happy coincidence to the appearance of this thread, which has been simmering for a while.
    pps - Sam's Chassis 22579 On Ebay thread was a more entertaining way of generating the interest in this - Mission Accomplished :D

    Have a fresh supply of popcorn on hand.............This is gonna take a while, and the whole underbelly of the beast will be on display for context and comprehension. As Enthusiasts, information on the character of shops and the people who run them is always valued, and #22579 deserves it.

    Ultimately, this thread will either chronicle the Re-Restoration Of #22579, or I will start a new thread by that title, solely for that journey from its current state.
     
  4. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    I had forgotten that I had contacted Brett via PM back in 2008 about sourcing one, after passing on one in AZ. To his credit, he remembered what I had already disregarded from two years prior. The things you find looking back......

    Moving past my previous overtures into 365/400/412 Ownership, Let's go back to how #22579 came to be mine. Again, I initially contacted Brett via FChat's PM (the full PM this time, for better context):

    11/27/10
    40557 - v2.0
    Brett,

    I've been mulling this over for way too long now, but I'm finally getting to it.....

    After looking for the "right" 400 5sp, for quite a while, I've decided that about the only way that's going to happen any time soon, if ever, is to have it built.
    I followed the build of 40557, and was wondering what a repainted, retrimmed, remotored, rebushed, re.....well, a build like what 40557 appeared to be, would run. I had started this message a few days ago, and ironically, the thread resurfaces as I'm putting the finishing touches on it before sending to you.
    Probably would want to start with a U.S.-registered car, to avoid the importation/title issues, though.

    In the thread, "are there decent 365/400s for $20K anymore?" you had stated
    "we'll make a nice car out of it and a very logical guy will pay $45K for it...and just drive it...
    rather than spend 5 years, season after season, chipping away at all the stuff that we do.
    and he'll have saved a ton of money, nevermind aggrevation and frustration, along the way..."
    which is about perfect for what I want to do, as it seems that everything is covered, if I'm understanding that correctly.
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/sho...7&postcount=15

    Ideally, I'd like a carb car (even if we have to start with an injected car), TDF blue/Grey Interior, with nothing (well, close to it) to worry me for the next few years, ethanol-heavy fuel, dual AC, and sliding-cable HVAC controls, included. The complete list of "want" specs is a little longer, but not much.
    Basically, a brand-new (upgraded where opportunity/materials presents itself), 30+ year old car that I'll drive regularly.

    Since the thread was re-opened, and you just posted pics of a finished car, I'm curious if that's 40557, or another car. I thought 40557 was being done for David/Slick Murphy. It looks perfect for what I want, except for the colors, and the injection - absolutely gorgeous, though.

    Thanks,

    Kurt​


    From here, we were off to the more efficient and capable telephone and email communication, where Brett told me of #22579's availability due to its "situation" as noted in my OP, and quickly followed up with an email with pics of the subject car showing the new engine install:
    Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 17:11:50 -0800
    From: verabrett@yahoo.com
    To: willrace@hotmail.com

    hey Kurt,
    i'll need to ask my wife where the other pic files for this car are located because this is all i have on my shop computer...
    there are tons more though, likely on the external hard drive at home...i'll find them tonight.
    i think this car represents an awesome starting point for this project and i spoke to both my bodyman and painter today...they're ready to roll.

    more to follow...​

    And they did, a few days later, after some questions:

    Re: 400gt&#8207;

    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Fri 12/03/10 1:24 PM
    To: kurt williams (willrace@hotmail.com)
    hey,

    "Yes, I did. Been out of town all day, so not much checking in with anyone - realized I need to do this more often. I'll have to refresh my memory of our first conversations in a bit. Was that the one ready for a color-change and re-skin?"
    Yes...1978 400GT...exactly what you're after.
    "I think that if an engine is gong to be gone-through that thoroughly, I'd want to pop for the higher compression pistons, given the increasing amount of alcohol we're being forced to run down here."
    Well, ofcousre we could open it back up...but it was just done and it's going to have lots of compression in Factory spec...
    and i really think your budget, whatever that turns out to ultimately be, could likely be better spent on other areas...the engine is new now.

    i'm going to take some pics outside right now so you can see how solid the body is on this car...stay tuned.

    again, i think this is the perfect candidate for what you've got in mind...and we're ready to get the ball rolloing toward a spring delivery.

    brett


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    .....and a few days later:

    400gt Dee-lays......&#8207;

    From: kurt williams (willrace@hotmail.com)
    Sent: Tue 12/07/10 10:26 PM
    To: Brettski (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Brett,

    My apologies for not getting back to you - in the process of replacing a tenant/manager, so most of my breaks from dealing with that have been more "flashes of escapism" from the issue.....although the 400 should have qualified in some way, and much better than addressing all that she didn't get done over the past year. You're not the only one I'm neglecting right now because of this (and she's upset that I'm not giving her yet another chance....to "get around to it").

    Took a quick look at the pics, and yep, pretty close, except for the colors. The higher comp. pistons would still be a strong preference, brought on by our recent switch off of "Summer Blend", and the noticeable difference in both power and mileage. After the cost of the piston set, it's pretty much the same work for machining and assembly, from the standpoint of a rebuild to the extent that I recall in the 40557 thread. (just had to log on to check that). I think I remember you saying that you already replaced the rods.
    I'm still thinking about whether that torque difference will be something I will really notice, or if it's just the piece of mind provided by new pistons and rings, that's on my mind. Was this engine, transmission, etc. torn down to the same degree as 40557?

    I noticed that the Rebirth Auto 400i is back, which reminded me of how not to do the interior, but how good the design looks in white.

    How many other 400GTs do you have up there now?
    ...................................................................................................................
    Re: 400gt Dee-lays......&#8207;
    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Wed 12/08/10 3:40 PM
    To: kurt williams (willrace@hotmail.com)
    hey Kurt,
    i believe the exterior colour issue is one that you'll have to address with any car that you're going to start with...
    TDF was not a colour the Factory offered at that time...so to have that colour on a 400, we'll have to paint it...
    and although grey leather was offered on that model, i've yet see it in a single car, in person or in pics...
    so, where does that leave us then... i think the best starting point is a solid, straight, rust-free car that we paint to your specs, no ?

    as for the pistons, i'll happily change them for you and, if i'm keeping the ones that are in the car now, then i'll also help with the purchase.
    we won't need to touch the heads as they were just redone, but we will need new headgaskets and valve cover gaskets, rings and rod bearings.
    again, i'm happy to do it...i just don't personally feel that it is necessary...and yes, the engine work went even further than that on 40557.
    we have 12 beautiful pistons, new rings and 2 new cylinders in this motor...new chain and tensioners, new valves, guides, seals, seats etc.,etc.
    the carbs and distributors were just rebuilt.

    the transmission was totally issue free, so there was no work required, but if you wanted us to, we could drop it and go through it...
    that would be a better investment, in my opinion, then spending thousands of dollars opening up a fresh, done-to-Factory spec motor.
    we have already resurfaced the flywheel and add a new clutch disc, pressure plate, release bearing...
    it shifts beautifully, even into second from cold...but if you want us to go through it and measure everything then we will...

    i've got a spare set of all the leather interior that we would be recovering so it can go out immediately to be redone...
    and as you saw in the pics, the dash and tunnel are very, very good...so we could redo them if you wanted but it certainly isn't required now.
    i wouldn't mind removing the Walnut console and having it stripped and restained.

    we've already done the shock bushings, so we only have to do the control arm bushings now.

    obviously, all the important decisions are yours to make...and i'm here to offer advice when you need it...
    all i really need to know is if we're starting this project anytime soon...i can't find out in January of February that you want the car in May...
    my reputation and passion for this model precede me, so you're in really, really good hands...i got lots of references if you need them.
    you just need to give me the go ahead before some else grabs this car...i don't have any other 400's...only 40557 and a '73 365 GT4 2+2.
    in 5 years, this is the only 400GT i've found, so i jumped on it...it's hard to believe but 365 GT4's are much more common than 400GT's...
    a 400GT is, without question, my model of choice from the series...the final carbed Colombo V-12, nicest interior and 4 lamps at the back...
    it's the one to have.

    i'll wait for your call,

    brett​


    Fairly mundane, but expected at this stage of "kicking tires", and very encouraging. There's a little more than just a new motor in there, so it's becoming a better candidate for my "new 30+ year old car" by the day. I could already feel my pocket getting lighter. A few more days, and Brett is wondering if I'm still out there and interested......

    Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 06:06:58 -0800
    From: verabrett@yahoo.com
    Subject: Fw: 400gt Dee-lays......
    To: willrace@hotmail.com

    hey Kurt,
    have you given this any further thought...or should i just move on ?
    letting me know one way or the other would be appreciated...
    thanks,

    brett
    .................................................................................................

    Movement on 400gt......&#8207;

    From: kurt williams (willrace@hotmail.com)
    Sent: Sun 12/12/10 10:14 PM
    To: Brettski (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Brett,

    I've been able to think about doing the 400GT more over the last couple of days, as the tactics for my unexpected tenant/manager problem have been decided, although not implemented yet.

    I very likely will go ahead with the project, but had a few more questions and clarifications. The more I've thought about this particular car and its use in this project, the more I like it.
    Is this the car you said is already titled in the U.S.?
    Strength/Solidity of this engine, given that once broken-in, it typically will hit redline several times a week? (another reason for those HC, lighter pistons)
    Does this car have LSD?
    Diff. bearings checked; R&P and carrier checked?
    Have the wheel bearings been replaced, or was this already included in the plan?
    AC system kept as R-12? (Very important in the case of TX heat. Not kidding)
    Electric windows: motors/cables/pulleys/guides good or replaced?
    Switchgear condition?

    Like I expressed on the phone - pretty much a New 30+ year old car, with material and design upgrades made possible with the advances of those 30+ years of technology and hindsight.

    Kurt.
    .......................................................................................
    Re: Movement on 400gt......&#8207;
    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Mon 12/13/10 2:45 PM
    To: kurt williams (willrace@hotmail.com)
    hey Kurt,

    I've been able to think about doing the 400GT more over the last couple of days, as the tactics for my unexpected tenant/manager problem have been decided, although not implemented yet. i hope you are able to resolve that issue quickly and to your satisfaction...

    I very likely will go ahead with the project, but had a few more questions and clarifications. The more I've thought about this particular car and its use in this project, the more I like it. i'm glad to hear that and i think it's a fantastic starting point for this exact project...
    Is this the car you said is already titled in the U.S.? yes, we got this car from the Los Angeles area...it had been Federalized but
    the owner was not going to be able to get Air Bureau approval in California...

    Strength/Solidity of this engine, given that once broken-in, it typically will hit redline several times a week? (another reason for those HC, lighter pistons)
    Does this car have LSD? the motor will be outstanding...ofcourse HC pistons would be nice...again, you tell me what you want.
    yes, LSD.


    Diff. bearings checked; R&P and carrier checked? i will go through the Diff as a matter of due course during a project such as this...

    Have the wheel bearings been replaced, or was this already included in the plan? we changed, repacked and preloaded the fronts already.
    rears yet to be done, but we certainly will...

    AC system kept as R-12? (Very important in the case of TX heat. Not kidding) absolutely, A/C is a must...my newest guy is an A/C specialist !

    Electric windows: motors/cables/pulleys/guides good or replaced? i'll verify that for you...i think i remember them being strong...
    Switchgear condition? everything will work, with the possible exception of the clock, but we can send that out for repair if necessary...

    Like I expressed on the phone - pretty much a New 30+ year old car, with material and design upgrades made possible with the advances of those 30+ years of technology and hindsight. I understand and won't disappoint...

    next steps would be a deposit and a Bill of Sale...
    it seems a Bill of Sale for the price of the car (say $17.5K) and seperate invoices for the restoration is best for you guys down there...
    so, i suggest a deposit of $17.5K...that buys you the car...then we proceed from there with the restoration and invoicing...
    sound good ?

    i'm ready to roll...i can start the ball rolling with bodywork and interior over the course of this week !!!

    i'll call you today to finalise,
    thanks,

    brett,


    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Fri 12/17/10 5:38 PM
    To: kurt williams (willrace@hotmail.com)
    hey Kurt,
    sorry for the delay in getting back to you...
    well, i had my details confused...the 400 was Titled in California and the Title came with the car...i can't remember why i thought otherwise.
    so, we just need to go to our MTO and get a copy of it because we are required to surrender the existing Title when it's registered here.

    anyway, i confirmed it and it's obviously what we wanted to hear.

    have a good weekend, lets talk at your next convenience,

    brett​


    Skip ahead a day, and with the previous US/California registration confirmed (I also confirmed through Dick Merritt), and another potential buyer, it was time to act upon what I'd been thinking for almost a week, so I pulled the trigger - that feeling we've all enjoyed over one thing or another, especially realizing a long-held desire.

    1978 Ferrari 400 Bill of Sale and Wire Transfer info&#8207;

    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Mon 12/20/10 2:15 PM
    To: willrace@hotmail.com
    good morning Kurt,
    sorry for the delay...i needed to confirm the 'transit' number for my US account and, therefore, needed to wait until my bank opened.

    this e-mail will act as the Bill of Sale between yourself and Larry Warren for the 1978 Ferrari, serial # F101CL22579
    the purchase price is $17, 500 USD and the current Ontario registration will pass directly from Larry Warren to you.
    this is a private sale and you will be subject to US taxes when the car is imported into the US.

    the additional work that you have requested, to be performed by Gran Turismo, will necessarily be treated as a seperate transaction.

    just to make sure you understand, because it can be confusing, you are not sending these funds to a US bank...
    rather, you are sending it to my US account at TD Canada Trust, whose US partner is Bank of America.

    TD Canada Trust, 6 Victoria Street West, Alliston, Ontario, Canada, 705-435-6215
    Branch 2040, Transit # 0---2, Account # 7-----2
    Swift Code ( all letters ) T - - - - - - - - - R

    TD Canada Trust has as it's US partner, Bank of America, New York, NY.

    Swift Code ( all numbers ) 0-- --- --3


    my info is : Brett Swaykoski........

    thanks Kurt,

    brett
    .................................................................................
    Wire Confirmation&#8207;
    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Tue 12/21/10 4:06 PM
    To: kurt williams (willrace@hotmail.com)
    Funds Received ($17, 500 USD)...Congratulations !

    thanks for your trust and for giving us the opportunity to save a once great car !

    the work has begun, updates to follow before X-mas, best to you and yours,

    brettski​


    A few corrections to the banking info during the transfer to match everything in the receiving account, and I was the excited new owner of a 400GT project in another country. COOL ! ! ! To say I was thrilled with getting to build "MY" 400GT, colors, updates, and all, was an understatement. AND it was going to be done by someone who knows these cars inside and out, our own Brettski, so all would be correct, all would be right. I wouldn't have keep answering questions and supervising as I already was with the Boxer.
    It just wasn't going to be cheap.

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  5. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    #4 willrace, Sep 22, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
    Before year's end, progress was already under way, and it was impressive in its swiftness.

    Re: Movement on 400gt......&#8207;

    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Tue 12/28/10 1:53 PM
    To: kurt williams (willrace@hotmail.com)


    Attachments: 9 attachments

    DSCF2277.JPG (1752.6 KB) , DSCF2278.JPG (1728.7 KB) , DSCF2279.JPG (1795.1 KB) , DSCF2280.JPG (1540.8 KB) , DSCF2281.JPG (1606.6 KB) , DSCF2282.JPG (1962.7 KB) , DSCF2283.JPG (1719.6 KB) , DSCF2284.JPG (1530.3 KB) , DSCF2285.JPG (1807.6 KB)
    hey Kurt,

    she's stripped and ready for the body work that will commence tomorrow...

    front and rear glass will remain in place until the last moment before they are pulled to clean up the channels prior to primer.

    she has great, great bones...the inner metal of the door skins were impeccable...we've got a great foundation for new paint...she's solid.

    ordering new silencers today and i'd recommend that we go with a high torque gear reduction starter...

    those Texas hot starts must be murder on a 6 carb set-up...

    all the best for the New Year,

    brett​


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    Look closely, and you'll see a crack that's going to suuuurely be addressed so it doesn't come back for a while!!!

    By January 5, 2011, I already had pics of the side marker light holes filled-in....

    P.S.&#8207;

    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Wed 1/05/11 6:56 PM
    To: willrace@hotmail.com
    in case you didn't notice, she was originally silver...only been repainted once and unfortnately, it was changed to red.
    shame, i love these cars in silver...​


    I have to agree there. Still torn between TDF blue and the white we'd be shooting the Boxer with. More pics followed of the paint being worked down for bodywork.
    At some point about this time, Brett decided that removing the rear glass was too risky, so the decision was made to leave it in place, BUT (important here) I specifically instructed Brett to dig out the sealant and shoot paint down into the crack, then come back and reseal it during reassembly, as we were having to do on the Boxer's huge windshield, since nobody would even touch it around here.

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    Another week went by:

    Body work completed&#8207;

    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Sun 1/16/11 10:21 PM
    To: willrace@hotmail.com


    Attachments: 10 attachments

    DSCF2393.JPG (1680.4 KB) , DSCF2394.JPG (1501.6 KB) , DSCF2395.JPG (1415.1 KB) , DSCF2396.JPG (1474.2 KB) , DSCF2397.JPG (1485.0 KB) , DSCF2398.JPG (1551.8 KB) , DSCF2399.JPG (1843.6 KB) , DSCF2400.JPG (2.1 MB) , DSCF2401.JPG (1804.6 KB) , DSCF2402.JPG (1808.9 KB)
    100%...off for high build primer on Sat. 22nd...absolutely thrilled with where we stand.

    are you ready for payment installment # 2 ?

    talk at your next convenience,

    thanks,

    brett​

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    For those wondering, based upon painter's recommendation relayed by Brett (and confirmed by the shop doing the Boxer), because the paint was already good (per Brett......If I'd only known....) and had a good bond, only what was necessary was removed, and would act as the base for the new primer/sealer and color. Wire transfer #2 was sent the day after I opened this email, on January 18, transfer completed January 19, 2011, for another $12,500 to cover the ongoing bodywork and interior tear-down/prep.

    I had also started the search for the correct Energy Suspension poly bushings - we'll revisit those in another post, later.
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    Wire Confirmation&#8207;

    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Fri 1/21/11 6:29 PM
    To: willrace@hotmail.com
    Funds received...thanks Kurt.

    400GT is loaded on the trailer...i'm leaving at 7am tomorrow morning to deliver it to the painter for high-build.

    have a great weekend !

    brett
    ..............................................................................................

    Re: Energy Suspension Bushings&#8207;

    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Thu 1/27/11 10:02 PM
    To: kurt williams (willrace@hotmail.com)
    hey,

    bushings ordered...3-4 weeks delivery...big bummer...

    car is back here in high build primer...ground work laid for interior...samples forth coming, but i'll need an address for shipping.

    away for vacation from the 29th to Feb. 5th...guys will be here working but i'll have no real access to email...
    talk when i'm back,

    thanks,

    brett
    .....................................................................
    Update&#8207;
    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Wed 2/16/11 4:02 PM
    To: kurt williams (willrace@hotmail.com)
    hey Kurt,
    we've been spending sometime on the tuning of your motor over the past couple of days while we wait for your suspension parts...
    we're expecting them any day and i got confirmation this morning that your new silencers are ready to ship tomorrow from the UK.
    as soon as the suspension parts are installed, we'll go back on the body, then prime and paint.

    as promised, i collected the leather sample books/swatches from the upholsterer and need to send them to you, so i need an address.
    just so you know, i'll need them back as soon as you've made your choice...i also saw some very nice ultra suedes while i was there.

    please send the shipping info asap, thanks,

    brett​


    So, some time was taken off from the bodywork while the suspension parts were sourced and Brett worked on his tan. No biggie - It's been progressing more quickly than the Boxer, which patiently (ha!!) waits for slow spots in that shop.
    Brett told me how happy he was that they had gotten the "blood trough" down the sides of the car, common to the Daytona also, so right, along with the rest of the bodywork, heading for the home stretch in final shaping for paint. I was thrilled - this was getting done right!!!
    The motor is getting more tuning.........in the body shop? I should have caught that back then. Blinded by excitement.

    Re: Update - Leathers and such....&#8207;

    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Tue 3/01/11 2:44 PM
    To: kurt williams (willrace@hotmail.com)
    hey Kurt,

    i hope the leather sample package found you...your exhaust silencers arrived yesterday...nice !!!

    however, a small time-related set-back at this end...
    i called Keystone (the Canadian distributor for Energy Susp.) yesterday to ask where the F--- my bushings were, since it had been a month...
    and to my utter dismay, they told me that they had no order in the system ???
    i freaked out and demanded to know the names of all the male call center reps there so i could track down the guy i placed the order with...
    the Supervisor refused to to accomadate that request and, after i cooled off, i realized it would serve no real purpose anyway.
    long story, short...i had to order them all over again, but i requested a rush be put on them this time.

    so, while we wait this time, we'll finish sanding the high build and paint the car...we'll drop the gearbox and rear-end before it goes out.

    so, that gives you about a week to finalise your colour choice and provide me with a colour code.

    to be honest, the bushing situation doesn't really hold us back too much, it was just the principal that had me so pissed off...
    God knows, our weather here rules out any road testing for a long time to come yet...especially with a freshly painted Ferrari.

    anyway, i hope all is well...we'll keep plugging away here so that when the right road conditions arrive, we'll be ready to pounce.

    ciao
    ........................................................................
    Fw: Update - Leathers and such....&#8207;
    From: vera brett <verabrett@yahoo.com>
    To: kurt williams <willrace@hotmail.com>
    Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 5:03:28 PM
    Subject: Re: Update - Leathers and such....


    we're ready to paint my man, so i need a paint code...

    cue the drum roll...brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....and the oscar goes to __________ ???

    if it were me, the winner would be Blu Ferrari 20 A 185 (midnight blue), but alas, it's not my choice...it's yours...and i need it !

    brett
    ..........................................................................



    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Thu 3/10/11 6:51 PM
    To: willrace@hotmail.com
    ?

    loadin'er up now to go for paint tomorrow...i'm dropping off the interior in the same run...Energy bushings will be here in 10 days !
    when last we spoke, you made a 'comment' about "...hoping to drive her soon..." which was followed by a fairly heavy sigh...

    but i need your help to make that happen...we're 'flat out' at this end and an April delivery is totally realistic.

    thanks,

    brett​

    With the help of some other FChatters with whites, I'd narrowed the choices down to three, but was behind Brett on the schedule. Real Life still intruding enough for these issues to pop-up occasionally. Leather was solved, though......sorta....
     
  6. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    ......for a while.

    RE: Update - Leathers and such....&#8207;

    From: kurt williams (willrace@hotmail.com)
    Sent: Thu 3/10/11 7:07 PM
    To: Brettski (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Funny timing - Your email hit just as I was just printing out the paint codes to take to the shop for some test pieces.
    Yesterday, I dropped by the leather source I told you about, and mention in the email I was already working on (below)

    The email I had already started working on:

    Brett, Color and Paint Code are...........

    ......well, the most likely suspects, anyway.........

    Porsche 1999 Glacier White: 3AT or 3AU (less yellow than the 2009 Carrara White: B9A/B4)
    Mercedes 1989 Arctic White DB-147 (my W107 SL is already this color, gorgeous, but near-blinding)
    Ferrari 1982 Bianco Beta 222

    Any luck on the bushings on your end? Got them saved in my "basket" to send here, then up to you.

    How's your access/availability to Aeristo Leather? Using it in the Boxer, and just found out they're local to me.
    http://www.aeristo.com/Aeronappa.html
    Crappy website, though.​


    Aeristo has several hides of the deepest, blackest black I've seen in a long time, left over from a special order. I need to get the interior details worked-out so your upholsterer can tell me how many of each color he needs.

    Looks like you got the bushings covered now, so that's another to mark off the list.​


    Brett patiently gave me weekend to pick which White, while the Boxer shop shot me some cards using Spies Hecker. They took nearly a week for a slow spot to shoot the cards, putting us another week behind, getting uncomfortably close to Brett's "Spring Rush".
    Ahhhhhhh, projects ! ! !
    Also, the number of hides required for the interior was established, to be added to the order for the Boxer, so that the Lot#s would match between them for repairs from the remnants. I was doing line drawings of the interior to define what parts got what color and material (Ultrasueded in certain parts). Brett talked me out of a treatment running black leather along the tops of the doors, which I'd seen on a couple of 400s and liked, but wasn't factory by any account we could confirm at the time. We may need to return to that out of necessity, as will be seen later posts.

    By March 22: "....The paint has been decided - and it turns out to be an ALFA color, via Mercedes. Had them do a spectral shot of it, so we have the formula, and I'll be sending a shot paint card to match, too..."
    Indication of the 400's interior direction from our phone conversations are reflected in emails more frequently now:

    Leathers and calipers....&#8207;

    From: kurt williams (willrace@hotmail.com)
    Sent: Wed 3/23/11 6:36 PM
    To: Brettski (verabrett@yahoo.com); willrace@hotmail.com
    Good point about the location of the black, but it hasn't been an issue for me through several cars, probably because of window tint (when closed) and airflow (when window-down), whereas those with the lighter color top edge tend to show rubbed-in dirt. I just thought it could make a nice tie-in from front-to-rear black, almost like the rim of a bowl. The entire top section of the dash to the glass will be Ultrasuede (likewise, the rear shelf), but the overriding endcaps will be in the same smooth black as everything below that, and the console. The interior will be visually lightened considerably by the seats, and by the major expanses of the door and rear area panels, even with their black accenting in the armrests/handles and cubbyholes.
    I'll probably end-up going with the standard, although I've seen pics of a couple with that treatment........don't know just yet........

    IIRC, calipers were just silver, which is fine - it's an updated version of the car - keeping its theme of "dignified power" intact, so not going for the "Look at me!!!" of red or yellow calipers; plus, this would only draw attention to the lack of monster brakes for when I run it at Le Mans....... ;)
    Black would look very nice, too, for a difference - as long as either will hold up to the temps....so if that's a good option, let's do that.

    I'm about to have the bolster framing welded for the Boxer, so I'll be getting closer hide requirements for that car soon, too, to add to the 400's.​

    Haven't had a progress pic in a while, since Brett's been waiting for color codes from me. Finally have what he needs......almost a month late. At least the other things have been getting done........


    Paint Formula&#8207;

    From: kurt williams (willrace@hotmail.com)
    Sent: Mon 4/04/11 5:16 PM
    To: Brettski (verabrett@yahoo.com); willrace@hotmail.com


    Attachments: 1 attachment

    Paint Formula.jpg (56.5 KB)
    Before the madness starts again this week, and then taxes............
    Paint formula for Spies-Hecker (DuPont, RM, ???) is attached, as faxed from SH rep. The test cards (what you are getting in your package below) shot off of this formula were about as dead-on as it gets, so a good metric for your painter to confirm match from the formula.

    How soon will you be ready for leather......

    I should be sending the color card to match today, along with your leather sample sets.​


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    April 6, another $10,000 is wired, on just a simple phone request the day prior. For those counting at home, we're up to $40,000, with nothing significant about the milestone. Remember that.
    How THIS could be what rolls off of the transport, is just baffling.
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    Yes, that's a very flat credit card fitting under the trunk lid, on top of the fender, and still angling toward the ground.

    That door IS closed all the way, despite what your eyes tell you when they follow that body line at the base of the windows. For anyone wanting a little hand surgery, opening only, we have.....
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    That screw almost fell out in my hand while getting an estimate, btw.

    Old leather, meet new leather.....
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    Wait till ya see that last one in better light!! Frankenstein - The Middle School Home/Ec Years

    Just hangin' out....leanin' on the grill.....so it doesn't fall out of the gap.....
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    LOTS of pics showing a pencil where one shouldn't fit without force, including this one where I almost couldn't get the shot before it fell out. It was inserted level.....several times.
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    So much work, so much time, and this??

    WOW.

    I've got to open a Picasa or Photobucket account to truly share the quality of the work, inside and out. Some things can't be made-out very well in the FChat-sized format........but then, there's the rest.
     
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  8. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    Shifting to another part of the work for a while........

    April 10, 2011,I got my first pics of the suspension work, with the new Energy Suspension bushings in their places.
    Getting them to that point was their own ordeal, as already alluded to in other featured emails:

    RE: Update - Leathers and such....

    Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 06:44:31 -0800
    From: verabrett@yahoo.com
    Subject: Re: Update - Leathers and such....
    To: willrace@hotmail.com

    .....a small time-related set-back at this end...
    i called Keystone (the Canadian distributor for Energy Susp.) yesterday to ask where the F--- my bushings were, since it had been a month...
    and to my utter dismay, they told me that they had no order in the system ???
    i freaked out and demanded to know the names of all the male call center reps there so i could track down the guy i placed the order with...
    the Supervisor refused to to accomadate that request and, after i cooled off, i realized it would serve no real purpose anyway.
    long story, short...i had to order them all over again, but i requested a rush be put on them this time.

    so, while we wait this time, we'll finish sanding the high build and paint the car....​



    How all of that upgraded suspension turned out, eventually:

    400 suspension, etc.&#8207;

    From: vera brett (verabrett@yahoo.com)
    Sent: Sun 4/10/11 7:53 PM
    To: willrace@hotmail.com


    Attachments: 5 attachments

    DSCF2794.JPG (1340.9 KB) , DSCF2795.JPG (1527.0 KB) , DSCF2796.JPG (1298.3 KB) , DSCF2797.JPG (1495.7 KB) , DSCF2799.JPG (1611.3 KB)
    newly machined sleeves came back, so we were able to start the suspension reassembly...

    have a good weekend...watching the Masters ?​


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    Looks pretty good, eh? Then I remember that it was done by the shop that sent the rest of this car out the door as "Done GOOOOD!!".....and that's before factoring in the mystery rattle from deep within the front fender when you close the passenger door hard enough to close it fully.....and the oil drip from the freshly rebuilt motor while it was still in James' shop after delivery.

    What I didn't know was what else had gone on to get them there, as I would learn on the phone while arranging delivery of the car the first time, now quoted from a later email:

    Re: Time to decide

    Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:39:16 -0700
    From: verabrett@yahoo.com
    Subject: Re: Time to decide.
    To: willrace@hotmail.com

    ....but, since you brought up Matt at ES, why don't you ask him why all the bushing sleeves were far too long for the application ?

    they all needed to be machined from new material here...

    so, while i know.....


    Odd, but there's always a first time that someone does it this way, rather than the simple trimming done by other shops....and self-maintaining owners on everything from 308s to Boxers. This would be a similar theme with the leather that everyone here has no problem with.......even in private jets, where such "poorish quality leather" abounds.

    With the suspension out of the way for now, let's get back to that Interior for a while.............

    I had a very good idea of how I wanted the interior to be before I ever bought the car, based upon a similar theme to the Boxer's and several other cars, both at that time and long-gone. Only the details needed to be determined and laid-out, which was finalized in late March, and provided in early April:

    From: willrace@hotmail.com
    To: verabrett@yahoo.com; willrace@hotmail.com
    Subject: Paint Formula
    Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 17:16:58 +0000

    ....... to confirm match from the formula.

    How soon will you be ready for leather for the interior? Aeristo is holding hides for me, but just called me to tell me that the really black-black ones I liked so much aren't colorfast, or stain-resistant, or........... So, it's back to the Raven.
    Base upon our conversation yesterday, I think we have pretty good handle on the color details.
    A couple of quick decisions after sleeping on them:

    Keep the headrests all grey
    Black piping, but only where there is currently piping.....and some of that may go to a different stitching that doesn't need piping.
    Keep the script on the trunklid
    Mount for the trunk and bonnet(?) pulls (beside driver's seat) in black
    Pass side overhead grab handle in black
    Back of bottom seat cushions (seen below the seat back when in rear seats, or when seat back is tilted forward for access to rear seats) in black

    Get a firm number on the number of each hide color required, plus the amount of Ultrasuede needed for the upper dash, the rear package shelf, and the next-to-glass base surrounds for each of those.

    I should be sending the color card to match today, along with your leather sample sets.​


    The only details left out of this specific exchange were regarding treatment of the seatback "horseshoe" and its insert, which were to be done in the new black leather, and the black Ultrasuede to match the already established inserts in the doors and beside the rear seats (March 23 email), respectively, and A-pillars, per a subsequent phone conversation, which unfortunately can't be copied here.

    After an issue with the original leather supplier (Aeristo), my upholsterer's other go-to supplier for jet interiors (Douglass) shipped 2 Black Angus and 4 Coldstream Grey hides (of a similar, matching order to here for the Boxer) to Brett on May 23, 2011.....which sat in customs for over a week due to a paperwork misunderstanding (YAYYYYYY NAFTA "simplifying"!!). In September (yes, September 20), the seats were done in their new leather.........wrong. Looked like a Ski Nautique boat without the correct "popsicle" pattern:


    Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 06:39:44 -0700
    From: verabrett@yahoo.com
    Subject: 400 GT Interior
    To: willrace@hotmail.com

    hey Kurt,

    we can install the interior...and i'm really happy with it...even if the light, light grey colour makes it very, very difficult to handle !!!

    you'll likely notice that an 'executive decision' was forced upon the upholsterer by the poorish quality of the leather that was supplied..." jacket leather " was what they called it.

    i was not consulted and only found out when i picked up a portion of the interior yesterday.

    i'm sending a second e-mail that clearly shows what the challenge was...​


    Who doesn't like Gumby? Best part - Rather than stopping at "We can't handle this" moment Number ONE, they went ahead and burned through the rest of the seats......and of course, the leather, without saying a word until the damage was done. BTW, I've seen what my guy here has done with this exact same leather, with no problems in much less simple designs.

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    Ultimately, another hide was ordered, another upholsterer did the seats, but the rest was done by Brett's original shop, instructions in hand, so I wouldn't end up with......
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    (TOLD you it was better with different light)

    ....except that this IS what I ended up with.......available for inspection currently.

    Repeat after me: "Done by an Expert.....Done by an Expert....."

    Even before the initial excitement of its arrival on March 22, 2012 wore off, a few glaring issues were noted. Once the fog, and weather, had cleared, and I looked at the car two days later as it sat at Norwood waiting to be retuned for US gas mix, I was stunned by how it looked as I approached it in the sunlight. Then, I was stunned by what I saw everywhere I looked, once I wasn't 30 ft away anymore. What I thought were just a handful of minor issues that could be addressed easily turned into shock......then amazed anger, and beyond.
    Just over a week later Dave Stacy was kind enough to take an hour to calm me down enough to call Brett. It was that bad, and I still hadn't noticed half of it yet, as I couldn't bear to look at the car for more than a short time without wanting to explode, and it was still over in Dallas, at Norwood.

    "Done by an Expert.....Done by an Expert....."

    From this point onward, I'll let my first emails after delivery tell the story, including Brett's humorous (to me, anyway) foray into "The Shipping Company Did It".
    These are presented strictly by "Copy & Paste", except with the same pictures inserted into the text as I would have in each email, if I knew how to. I'll probably add some of the more up-close pics I took just for FChat-size reformatting (also just right for EBay ! ! !), but those will be noted, and at the end of the relevant posts.

    Just keep repeating "Done by an Expert.....Done by an Expert....."
    You'll find yourself doing it A LOT.
     
  9. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    #7 willrace, Sep 23, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
    For a moment, allow me to play Devil's Advocate, ignoring both the final $5,000 invoice, and the provided interior materials costs.
    Let's run down some scenarios, since Brett's numbers and explanations keep dancing around like a Cirque de Soleil contortionist. That the total direct transfers for this car actually equaled $89,000 (over $10K short of the claimed $60K + $41K total of $101K without that final $5K, which would make that difference $15K), it still doesn't come close to matching anything below:

    If, as Brett has been saying (occasionally) since April, the original $60,000 was purely for the restoration after buying the car and its new motor at his latest proclaimed $41K "purchase price", what's detailed here represents $60,000 (yes, Sixty THOUSAND dollars) in Gran Turismo work.....and is still considerably short of the $101K by a bit, mathematically.
    Think about that as you enjoy these pics and emails.

    If that $60K was simply for the work performed, but included the $24K for the new engine, this is what the remaining $42,500 was expected to represent "good value", by his own intentions from what ever point he wishes to claim (currently, from the beginning).
    He has also claimed that his shop received only $40K....except when it was $60K.....or $65K.
    Keep thinking.


    If anyone were to think that someone wanting to rework an old Ferrari this comprehensively with a starting point of $41,000 and a total, all-in max-target of $60K, there could be said that they were extremely naive or delusional. Unfortunately for this argument, I've built, rebuilt, maintained, modified, and raced everything from lowly Mazdas to Porsches to Reynards, not even counting my too-brief time at Norwood. I've rebuilt totaled cars (even as a short-lived business venture) with real damage, to factory standards and higher in every aspect, for less.

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Now, on to those post-delivery emails - My response below is after Dave calmed me down enough to talk to Brett, though by now, you've already seen many of the pics, I wanted to present them exactly as they were in the related emails:

    Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 08:44:21 -0700
    From: verabrett@yahoo.com
    Subject: ?
    To: willrace@hotmail.com

    are you out there ?

    brett

    From: willrace@hotmail.com
    To: verabrett@yahoo.com; willrace@hotmail.com
    Subject: Big Problems 1
    Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 22:22:35 +0000

    I'm out here, trying not to explode. There's no acceptable "Well, But......" for any of this, and these are just some of the pics I've been able to get myself to take so far. This set is from the delivery, pretty overcast and dark, and drizzling. The first four were still in the trailer. Keep in mind that these were taken while I was still in that euphoric "It's finally here!!!" state, not noticing nearly as much as I would a few days later, in the dry, with good sunlight.​

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  10. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 21, 2006
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    #8 willrace, Sep 23, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
    For the record, I was wrong about the mounting of the grill - it goes in from the top:

    From: willrace@hotmail.com
    To: verabrett@yahoo.com; willrace@hotmail.com
    Subject: Big Problems 2
    Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 23:02:38 +0000

    I had stopped by on Saturday to see in in the light and dry, when I realized just how many serious problems there were, and that I needed to come back with something other than my BB for pics.
    This set was taken the next Tuesday, March 27, when I came by to take pics and check on the windshield install. Returned again on Thursday March 29 for the install finish and more pics. More to take, still, when I can get back over there.
    - First pic is the chip out of the RF of the radiator exit opening in the hood - the grill is mounted from underneath!
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    - Second is the interference chip nearer the center of the front edge of the hood, with mismatched touch-up paint. you could see this, barely, in the fourth pic of the first set - noticeable enough to see in the dark of the trailer.
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    - Third pic (0361) is the interference chip from grinding the left front edge of the hood against the bodywork above the headlight.
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    - Fourth pic (0363) is where someone buffed through the paint above the left front wheel. The dark curve to the upper left of the burn-through is dust that was brushed away to better see the damage.
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    - Fifth pic is the same fender, where the paint was burned, but not through as above it, along much of the wheel arch - that's not dust or dirt.
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    This concludes the first 1/4th of the exterior.....for now, anyway.​
     
  11. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    #9 willrace, Sep 23, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
    Still trying to hold it together, but fading. I wish the FChat format size showed what's in these better, but that's where the full-res size work better, and those update pics that will come in later, as already noted in the ebay thread.

    From: willrace@hotmail.com
    To: verabrett@yahoo.com; willrace@hotmail.com
    Subject: Big Problems 3
    Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 00:04:27 +0000

    - First two pics: Remember that rain drip that I mentioned? Take note of the curve of the trim piece, the similar curve of the A-Pillar, and how the former is lower than the latter, creating the gap between them. That mismatch also gives us, at the bottom of the trim piece itself, full intrusion and penetration into the new paint at the top front edge of the door.
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    - Third pic: When I'm told that the door seals are replaced, I expect all of them, in the same way as I expect a new set of tires to include all of them, not just the one with a tread separation, especially after all of this work, time, effort, clarification, and the price of either of two near-perfect 330GTs I passed on around the time I was agreeing to a $60K 400GT, including the car. This little factoid was in the back of my mind for the duration of the restoration, particularly when I found that you were no longer talking about "all in", but just on top of purchasing the car for the initial $17K....and then later finding out that another $24K was due to Larry. As per our conversations, I eventually justified this to myself by what I was expecting, as you'll recall.

    Sorry for straying to the semi-tangent, but it's getting to me again, for the second time today.

    - Fourth pic: The seal that was replaced, was obviously done after paint, yet........ And yes, the seal is seated as much as it will go.
    Just out of the bottom of the shot is where the older chipped paint underneath was painted over, as well as several glaring pre-paint cracks in the door jamb.
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    - Fifth pic: The screws securing the trim at the rear of the quarter window are not only at various angles, but the heads are too big to do anything but stand well-proud of the surface into which they should be recessed, even if they had been installed straight; the Passenger side is the same, as are those under front edge of the rain rails atop both door windows. Zoom-in to the lower corner, where the new rubber is cut over-length and waving in the wind by 3/4 inch, whereas the Passenger side's rubber was cut seriously short, so splitting the difference, has a 3/8 inch gap at each end. While you're still zoomed, look along the trim line contorted by the misaligned/installed screws, and the straight trim on the glass, and the gap between. Might actually be the original silver with globs of old sealant, or maybe gummy primer, visible in there, on the passenger side as well. I'll get to the top of these trim pieces in another email, after I make it back over to take some more pics.
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    - Found that I took a closer detail shot of that corner of the quarter window. You can see that there's an indent under the screw for countersinking it, if the head was the right size, and it was installed perpendicularly to the surface. You can also see the gunk not-so-hidden in the gap, as if the trim were not removed at any time prior to paint, when just one of those bodyworkers would have hit this area with a scraper and some black paint. Just ahead of that, the mark in the new paint cuts though to the primer, most likely from rushing the trim on.
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    I'll work my way around more of the exterior later, after my adrenaline dissipates a bit, and start in on the interior of $90K worth of $35k car. It's stunning from 20 ft., though - the more's the disappointment.​
     
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  13. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    From: willrace@hotmail.com
    To: verabrett@yahoo.com; willrace@hotmail.com
    Subject: Big Problems 4
    Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 23:09:01 +0000

    Took a long lunch and drove to Dallas for more pics for more detail. I shouldn't do this anymore; every time I go back for shots/angle I realize I didn't get previously, I find more that I hadn't noticed while focused on the already-noticed issues. It's disheartening, and the point is already made. James hasn't started on retuning yet, so I won't bother going over again until after he is done, possibly early next week.
    Then I get to decide what to do with it, after you and I figure out how to address what's in these pics.

    Returning to the Driver's side door area:
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    - Today's closer pic of the bottom of that B-pillar. Aside from the paint-filled crevasses below the trim, in the jamb surface, aside from the scarred and chipped-out new paint showing deep into the old red paint, the spot peeking out from underneath the trim, about 3/8 inch back, you can actually see the edge lines of two distinct layers of previous paint that were painted over. I know this trim was removed for prep and painting; I've got pics of it bare. The somewhat horizontal (pic-frame-wise) crack-line from the bottom corner of that piece of trim toward the interior is one thick layer of chipped-out paint, painted over with the new white. You can feel the step easily, and certainly see it without any problem.
    Thankfully, the red in the trim reflection is a 512TR, not my face glowing - it was early in the pic session.

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    - Second pic (0413) moves us around to the rear of the diagonal quarter-window trim piece, where you can see how it's not seated againsst the body, as a function of both the funky screw installation, and what's detailed in the next pic.

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    - That next pic (0414) show just how off the installation is of this piece, and its related piece from across the top of the door opening. Starting in the curved part, where the gap is greatest, nearly the whole body-vent is visible, the black seal not able to do its job of keeping water from flowing into the body itself.
    Moving forward to the front edge of that same trim piece, take note of the step-down to the mating piece of rain trim. This almost ripped my hand open, so probably not how it's supposed to be......
    While you're zoomed, take a look down at the door shut-line, for where we'll be in a moment.

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    - Different view of what's either a knife trim, whistling wind noise waiting for anything over 50 mph, or both. No zooming is needed, but if you do, you'll see another oversized screw head standing well-above the surface at the joint, and another exhibiting a good amount of cant in its countersunk hole, shadow on its backside of the countersink indentation.​
     
  14. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    From: willrace@hotmail.com
    To: verabrett@yahoo.com; willrace@hotmail.com
    Subject: Big Problems 5
    Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 23:17:11 +0000

    On to that door shut-line mentioned in BP4........

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    - (0416) Yes, the door is shut. All the way. I'm not going to kick it to see if it just might go the last 3/16 inch, because we've all tried closing it, and it's pretty solidly as far as it will go.


    - (0434) This is the view down the panel. The shine from the rocker panel trim strip continues forward into what is actually the gap. You're still seeing that strip on the other side of the corner of the door.
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    - (0433) This card moves freely in that gap (why I couldn't just leave it in there, but had to hold it). You'll see the flatness of that card later, in a similar manner, held by gravity. You'll also see a pencil in some even bigger gaps.

    I want to take this opportunity, while we're still on the driver's side, to head back up to the hood, for another chunk of paint I overlooked while focused on those I first noticed:
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    - (0439 & 0440) Along the fender-side edge (I was right there the first times I took pics, but too much in awe of the front edge of the hood itself at the time), just up and around the corner. It's the longest that's been attempted a touch-up. Zooming really shows what happens to new paint when large panels are reinstalled in a rush.

    We're almost 1/3 of the way around the car. The outside.​

    Some of what you see in this scale of the pictures is dust that's either been swept aside to view the real problem, or spotted by a brief sprinkle while it was sitting outside at Norwood.
    Brett later called the card a "trick", though several people at #22579's first Cars & Breakfast gathering last weekend were encouraged to try to shut that door - with the exact same result. Perhaps, if the True King were to try.......(King Arthur reference)
     
  15. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 21, 2006
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    North Tay-has
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    Kurt
    In the Big Problem series, we're almost halfway though, but it actually gets more entertaining after the series' history and chronology, as Brett dances and dodges.

    From: willrace@hotmail.com
    To: verabrett@yahoo.com; willrace@hotmail.com
    Subject: Big Problems 6
    Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 00:11:43 +0000

    I know these weren't Mercedes-perfect from the factory, but the purpose of you overseeing all aspects of this restoration was your unique knowledge of these cars, and passion to correct issues with the benefit of close to 40 years of many peoples' hindsight (since the original 365) and a thoroughly open book on what could be done during reassembly and fitting, both mechanically, and with the body and interior.

    With that in mind, moving back along the rear quarter......

    - (0411) I'll just leave this one to you. This is the GOOD side.
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    - (0395) Difficult to see in this pic, but just below dead-center of the pic is a run the size of my pinky finger fingerprint. One of very few flaws in the original application of the paint, bad prepwork notwithstanding.
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    - (0406) Still can't really see the run, but the brake lights are their own alignment disaster. Not even sure how that's done.
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    To the bottom, a chunk missing from the top of the "clean" bumper, painted (just one of several similar bumper issues I spoke of yesterday). It is, otherwise, a good, straight bumper (as is the front), in need of some flexible fill and paint. Yesterday, you said you didn't do anything to the bumpers as part of the repaint, which I would have expected as part of an all-over paint job. Review BP3's Doorseals/Tires expectations. We now seem to have very different understandings of "all" or "complete".

    - (0431) Difficult to see in this pic, but just to the right of dead-center are two scratches, same angle, just below where the vertical flat rolls into the horizontal surface, that I'm guessing are under the clear, because I cannot feel them with light touch or fingernail, and will not rub off.
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    - (0397) Before I move on or forget, that errant brake light. Could this be from a different car? The black finish on this one is even screwed-up a bit.
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    Going through these is depressing and exhausting, but you really need to see what we see here.​



    Again, I was wrong. More runs were found, including one about the size of the whole pinky-edge of my hand, tip-to-wrist, trying to slide down a door.
    The panel matches all over the car are high, then low, then high again - NOT a function of new seals (and that front bonnet has no such seals to blame).

    More to come, after some sleep.
     
  16. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Sep 3, 2002
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    Rob C.
    In trying to understand this situation a little better may I ask how much the paint and body component of the bill was? I'd be interested to know especially seeing as you referenced Newman's paint job thread.
     
  17. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Jan 23, 2006
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    Dave

    (sigh) as I said in the other thread, I'd hoped it wouldn't come to this.

    .
     
  18. Rock

    Rock Formula 3

    Nov 9, 2003
    1,652
    Toronto, Canada
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    Rocco
    Wow

    this thread on ferrarichat is a result of ferrarichat.

    waiting for a response from the restorer
     
  19. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    As I've already noted, after six months of deflect, dodge, and denial, at some point, you just have to accept that Brett isn't going to "step up" in any meaningful way. Ever.

    I finally had to accept that fact last week.

    $5,000 will not fix this to make it go away for either of us.
     
  20. gto406

    gto406 Karting

    Jan 7, 2008
    54
    Toronto, ON, Canada
    Full Name:
    Brian M.
    Contact your legal counsel. Civil and/or criminal proceedings will get their attention, and may help you recover some of your 'losses'.
     
  21. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 21, 2006
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    It's contained in the featured email Time to decide. in post #2, last third of the 5th paragraph:
    ....I didn't know at the time, nor need to know, that you paid $6,500 for that paint job, but as I noted in those April emails, whatever you paid, neither of us got what we paid for, and even if you had, it was promptly killed during reassembly....​

    Brett was simply given an overall budget for the finished car, targeted at about $55K, with an unvoiced (by me) expected and acceptable overrun to about $60K. From the discussed, confirmed, funded, bought, and reconfirmed purchase price of $17,500, that left a budget of $37,500-$42,500 (where I was realistically expecting it to hit) for what was to be done.

    Think you can properly correct and paint, reupholster, rebuild the brakes, rebush the suspension arms (shocks had already been done), replace the rear bearings and a little more for even the smaller amount, on an unwrecked car? I know I can, while paying the subcontractors who will make a profit.
    I'll be breaking this down even more in a future installment of an August 31 email, Yes, it really is time to decide.&#8207;, with several starting points, and including the breakdown of much more work that was done on the Boxer for less than the body/paint/interior leftover amount.

    Anyone in the area, or anywhere I'm traveling, has an open invitation to view the emails, as they sit in my hotmail account, which can't be altered. I will log them on, using their own computer, to verify everything here.

    For now, I'll share the follow-up to Brett's response to that Yes, it really is time to decide.&#8207; email:

    Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 09:22:51 -0700
    From: verabrett@yahoo.com
    Subject: Re: Yes, it really is time to decide.
    To: willrace@hotmail.com

    Kurt,

    this isn't a game and i'm not playing games...but i don't have $15 000...i don't have access to $15 000...and i don't owe you $15 000.

    you put your faith in me and you feel i've let you down...i'm sorry that's the case, but i don't feel that way.

    yes, you spent $90K on a very, very rare Ferrari that has a very, very low entry cost...you then had it extensively serviced and highly 'personalised'...completely your choice.

    i don't need you to break down your costs in every e-mail...i don't control the cost of the parts you told me to install, the cost of transport, importation, etc.

    furthermore, i never 'controlled' the cost of the car itself...but it was never $17 500...you know that and i don't understand why you keep saying that.

    the only cost i controlled was my shop's labour rate and i lowered it as much as i possibly could...

    and, God as my witness, this was anything but a job "well billed"...it was a grind from start to finish that cost me thousands and thousands of dollars worth of my time.

    i'm sorry your disappointed by the result and i've always been willing to discuss how i can help to make you happier than you are...

    but i can't pay $15 000 for you to have the car repainted down there...either financially or ethically...i can't...and nobody would do that...it's absurd.

    i've made an offer to you that is entirely fair...an offer that will cost me thousands of dollars, but that i'm willing to honour.

    you've chosen not to take me up on it for your own reasons...i don't control that either.

    i am working on one other possible 'solution', but it's too early to present it or commit to it until i look into a couple of things...


    again, i had no idea until a few weeks ago that you going to prepose that i pay for a completely new paint job for you...i was completely blown away by that...we all were.

    so, while you think i've had "time to prepare", i feel just the opposite...and two or three weeks simply isn't enough time to figure out what to do...hence, we haven't.

    i don't know yet what to do about this and i won't presume to tell you what to do...so, in the meantime, do what you feel you need to do...


    brett

    From: willrace@hotmail.com
    To: verabrett@yahoo.com; rob@ferrarichat.com; dave@circlesvineyards.com; willrace@hotmail.com
    Subject: Decisions have to be made.
    Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 22:49:56 +0000

    Brett,

    Because I had budgeted $60,000 for this whole car, as repeated and confirmed many times during the build, when I was told that I still owed Larry $24,000 to purchase the car I had already purchased, I didn't have $24,000 laying around uncommitted or already in use. After wrapping my head around the possibility of losing what, at that point, was a now-slightly-overbudget $65,000 (ignoring the leather and Ultrasuede for the rest of this email) investment in a very personal car in another country, once the shock, and then panic subsided, I moved some things around, including reaching into the budget for the Boxer, and mostly into a personal LOC I keep for investment opportunities and capital-intensive projects as they pop-up.

    I found a way, though. I got creative with what I had control over.
    I found the funds.
    It sucked, I postponed some personal things, along with some business investment, including the previously-mentioned (Aug. 31,2012 email) expansion underway now.

    Just as I told you on the phone then, I eventually rationalized it by equating the now-$90K car with having that basically-new, upgraded car as if I had been able to order it from Ferrari again. If I hadn't been getting the car I wanted at $60K, I wouldn't have started the project in the first place. Because I was getting such a car, $60,000 made sense, as discussed several times very early on (and prior even to committing); $90,000 was liveable, but I was not happy about it, and told you so at that time (December of 2011). At $60K, the car should have been almost perfect. The expected, upcoming "Final Invoice" of $5,000 took this to a tolerable $65K, but could be handled. I don't need to say what would have been expected for another $24,000, but if it wouldn't be justified or acceptable on a $60K car, it certainly wouldn't for $90K.

    As the only person aware of what was being spent on your end, you were the only one in a position to control what was spent, and were asked constantly "if this was still within the $60K overall budget?" You were simply given an overall budget for the car. If there had been any possible interpretation that I was starting from a $41K+ base instead of the $17,500 base, the very idea that the $60K budget was on top of a $41K purchase price would have resulted in a $101K car, which we don't have here, even before adding in the $5,000 overbudget Final Invoice. Again, the notion that I was aware of anything to do with a $41,000 sale price for the car, in any form, is destroyed comprehensively.
    If you could have delivered what I was expecting for the price of a few dollars, a wave of a magic wand, and a sorcerer's spell, you'd have made a great profit, and I'd be happy.

    I also just realized (and confirmed) that you had wisely said nothing about the additional $24,000 that I needed to wire to Larry to "buy the car" again until after receiving the requested, just by telephone, $20,000 quickly wired to you on December 9, 2011, and established the $5K cap on further charges, bringing the "total" cost up to $65,000, about which I voiced my displeasure, as already noted above.
    The first mention of $40K was in the December 5, 2011 email, just prior to arranging the importation and shipping, which I took as a typo, so far removed from anything ever said or thought, it was.

    Part of me wants the car I paid so much for, without having to pay out of my pocket again.
    It's fighting the part of me wants to start the thread that introduces this car's recent history and current condition to the world.

    I am, however, curious what your "other solution" might be.
    I need to know something very soon.

    Kurt​

    I think that was Brett's attempt at a waltz, btw. :D
     
  22. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    BTDT in my own back yard, without an international border and thousands of miles separating us. From experience, I'll get a Judgement, likely less than the legal bills, which cannot be collected due to the assessed never having assets to attach for that recovery, usually by intent.

    It's a very hollow victory, except for the attorneys.
     
  23. Rock

    Rock Formula 3

    Nov 9, 2003
    1,652
    Toronto, Canada
    Full Name:
    Rocco
    one of those lights is installed incorrectly, remove and turn it until even
     
  24. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    Repeat after me: "Done by an Expert........Done by an Expert......" :p
     
  25. Ashman

    Ashman Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 5, 2002
    28,585
    MA
    Full Name:
    John
    Looks like it should be rotated Clockwise by 90 degrees or so. The thinner part of the rubber mounting and surround should be on the bottom as the rear panel has a slight slope to the rear from the top to the bottom.

    The tailight mounting needs to match that slope in order to maintain a vertical face for the lens.

    How was the quality of the mechanical work that was done (realizing that the brake lines were a botched job)?

    Did you have a detailed estimate of the specific work to be done prior to commencing the work or was it a list and a total budget?

    Did you receive the title after the payment of the initial $17,500 that was represented as "buying the car"?

    Such a mess and my heart goes out to you.
     
  26. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    The work was performed, approved, and sent out the door by the same shop and trusted "Expert" that delivered the rest of this thing. i.e.: How much confidence would YOU have in it?

    Because I'd looked at several others, I already had estimates for the interior and exterior, so I knew from those, and experience, about how much of the budget they should use. There was the originally expressed list, which was refined to details, and a few things added, that should have fit well within the remaining budget.

    I was going to try to get the title work done sometime in the Spring, IIRC, but put-off having the title sent at that time after finding out that Texas won't even start the process until the car is confirmed to be in Texas. There was no expressed issue about the title being sent at that time, and there was no perceived reason not to trust our own Brettski at that time.

    Thanks. As I promised in the ebay thread, this car will receive a proper RE-restoration, but not until I can afford to do it again. Right now, funds are going into facility expansion at my horse farm, and the budget for the Boxer is for the Boxer (though Brett's "$24K Surprise" reached into it a tiny bit out of necessity).

    Until then, I'll get it final-tuned (James only spent enough time to get it to where I could drive it to shops for estimates), and replace those "custom brake hoses with extra adapters on each end" with some made properly, and make sure it's sound enough to use a bit, however embarrassing it is.
     
  27. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2004
    3,303
    Edmonton, AB Canada
    Full Name:
    Sam Saprunoff
    #24 samsaprunoff, Sep 23, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
    Good day John,

    Just an FYI... in Canada cars are not issued titles... Generally a certificate of ownership is via the car's registration and other associated documentation (i.e. bill of sale, etc). Canadian private car transactions are usually done by the the car's owner signing the car's registration "over" to the new owner and then the completion of a bill of sale. Both items are then presented to the local vehicle registry for a transfer of ownership/ and/or for new registration. I would guess that in this case this did not happen, because the car was destined to go to the US...

    On a secondary note... and I am not trying to add fuel to the fire... but, if Kurt has a bill of sale, etc, from the "initial" purchase then the 2nd "purchase" necessity has some serious legal/criminal implications... either towards the Restorer, the original owner, or both. Given the dollar amount of this issue, it could easily be elevated to a more formal level (i.e. Government Prosecutor) as opposed to strictly a civil matter.

    Indeed, this is a very big mess and is absolutely tragic...
     
  28. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    Before I head out for the afternoon, another installment of That's Incredible!!....

    From: willrace@hotmail.com
    To: verabrett@yahoo.com; willrace@hotmail.com
    Subject: B P 7
    Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 01:58:59 +0000

    On to the Right Rear Quarter.....

    - (0387) Remember that I said the Left side was the good one? This pic is from just below level. I tried to get in line with the top surfaces of the fender and trunk at its edge.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

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    - (0408) There's that card again - put a straight-edge on the screen to verify that it's quite flat. It's stuck in the closed trunk lid up to the underside support, and still not parallel with the top surface of the fender. The lines on the overhead door behind are level to the car and ground.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    - (0409) Card is as close to the curve profile of the trunk lid as possible

    - (0372) Rear Glass Trim, bottom Pass side corner. I now know that the trim on 400s is applied on top of the glass, simply removable with fishing line. How something this glaring was not addressed, when it's so simple, is baffling. Windshield guy fixed it in a few minutes. It took im longer to tape it down afterward for the sealant to set.
    With the ease of removing the trim in mind......
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

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    - (0419) .....notice any red along that rear window trim? Recall a conversation we had regarding digging out the sealant to spray down into the crack between the body and trim, then refill with sealant, as we were doing on the Boxer, since nobody would even touch the Boxer's windshield? With the above noted revelation in mind, even this was unnecessary with the simple removal of the trim, but not even clearing out the gap was done. I wish the Boxer's was so easy.
    We'll return to this pic in a sec, for the quarter window trim.

    - (0418) This piece is laying against the body as it's supposed to.........until it gets up to the top - say hello to just the uppermost part of the body vent - which suffers from the same installation problem as the driver's side where it meets the over-door rail. Down at its very bottom, though, you can see a mount(?) for this piece peeking out, on the outside of the trim.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    For a better look at the trim/rail joint, refer back to (0419)
    If you zoom more, and follow the line of the back glass trim toward the middle of the car, you'll find more exposed red.

    - (0421) Better shot of the mount(?) playing peek-a-boo. It's either hard plastic, or metal, but I didn't really want to test it against the new paint.
    In the corner of the window itself, you can see one end of the split-the-difference gap of the rubber that's too long on the driver's side.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Tomorrow, you'll see a pencil in places that it really shouldn't fit without forcing.​

    Halfway there........in the BP series. The follow-ups after that (of which you've seen a few glimpses already) are where Character is defined....over and over and over.......

    As someone very wise said not too long ago:
    "Only the bad shops would say FerrariChat has become “horrible” because of the efficient exchange of information."
     

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