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The Piper "P4" 0900, Just What is it ?

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by TZ 750, Mar 5, 2014.

  1. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
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    Now this is confusing as I thought there were only twelve 312PB chassis starting 0876 to 0898 inclusive, the last one being used and renumbered as a replacement for 0894 in 1972 and then there is a gap in the numbering until the first 512M chassis 1000.

    From this, Inspector Clouseau would deduce that 0900 is a logical unused number for Enzo to give to Piper in 1972 which was around the time he was buying the P4 spares and wanting to build another P4. However, on closer inspection, after the discovery of another unraced 312PB bearing the same number, Clouseau would conclude that Enzo was not very good at documenting his gifts.
     
  2. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Piper did not make the frames, they were made by a vendor in Italy, (that also apparently had acess to the trash Bin at the factory). :D :D :D

    As I understand it.....
     
  3. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    At the risk of derailing the thread.

    Tex, I'm not an ungrateful SOB. The Watkins book arrived only today after being forwarded three times.
    Thanks.
     
  4. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    VIN plates littered the Racing Department floor.

    Have you ever seen one?

    It's a little piece of metal, 1" x 2" mild steel, hand die stamped, with two blobby welds, on each end. Nothing at all like the street Ferraris
    I examined a 250LM once and the whole thing was pretty casual, by modern standards...;)
     
  5. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Well darn it!

    I didn't realize you were so intent on outrunning my mailing info!
    Hold still, so I can hit the target!! :D :D :D

    Also understand the chaos of my life, it probably went in a box as I moved, myself, (from Valeria's) then surfaced and into the truck, and then finally to the Post Office!

    It's a wonderful read, we'll miss a great man.
    The parts on Senna are especially heart rending, as he tried to convince him to quit, and go fishing.

    So, let's go fishing!

    *announcer voice*
    And now we return to our regularly scheduled thread on Ferrari shenanigans....
     
  6. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Amazing the Post Office has that level of perseverance!

    They returned my son's college graduation announcement, from an address only two blocks away from my current apartment, the SAME Post Office branch handles BOTH addresses!

    Doh!!!
     
  7. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

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    Should read 0884 not 0894.

    Best Regards,
    Dave
     
  8. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #33 VIZSLA, Mar 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Been through the wars.
    Yes, it arrived open.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Agree. Thread moved.
     
  10. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Facts are David claims Enzo gave him the chassis # 0900 and Ferrari S.p.A issued a Certificate of Origin to Mr. Chinetti for 312PB chassis 0900 in 1977.
     
  11. Enigma Racing

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    Thank you
     
  12. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

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    This is a good question.

    Does anybody know when Piper STARTED on 0900 ?

    That might tell us something more
    about whether it was "in period" or later.....
     
  13. El Wayne

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  14. FarmerDave

    FarmerDave F1 World Champ
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    Ive read so much about 0846 but above is the first time I've heard a succinct retelling of how it ended up in Jim's hands.
     
  15. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

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    Well I for one having watched those clips fully believe that David Piper comes across as a genuine, knowledgeable man who's integrity I doubt can be questioned in relation to all matter P4 and ferrari.

    I believe what he says regarding Enzo's input into 0900 and in my mind the car is an approved by Ferrari's founder, continuation P4 which then evolved during its racing career to the point it is at now.

    I am sure the next owner will be supplied with enough paperwork to substantiate this fact even if its not currently in the public domain.
     
  16. Enigma Racing

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    So summing up and as referred to elsewhere, Vaccari & Bosi (not the factory) made three frames for David Piper using permission, plans and tubing given to him. One which was numbered 0900 and used in Pipes P4. One which contained the remains of 0846 and is now heading for Amelia Island. One whereabouts unknown.

    Correct ?
     
  17. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    One frame is back with David never completed as a replica and later David had a fourth replica frame made by someone else for a fourth replica which went to the US but remains an uncompleted replica as well.
     
  18. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

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    So David had 3-4 frames made.

    Do we know the serial numbers of those ?

    How many FERRARI oiginal frames were
    made, and what are their serial numbers ?
     
  19. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

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    #44 peterp, Mar 7, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
    From the comments on these threads, it sounds like all of the original P4 chassis were made by Vaccari & Bosi, so (if I am understanding those comments correctly) it would have been incorrect for a P4 chassis to be made by the factory.
     
  20. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    Private message sent you. tongascrew
     
  21. gt4me

    gt4me F1 Veteran

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    David piper is a legend :)
     
  22. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
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    +1
     
  23. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    Yes there are two chassis with the 0900 sn.Like so much of the discussion of what,where and how Enzo Ferrari and David Piper arranged, it is largely based on conjecture. Here is my theory on the 0900 issue. There were only these two in the room and the first hand details of what went on are now known only by one living person. Simply put it appears E.F. provided D.P. with what ever D.P. wanted in the way of P seies equipment that was available at the factory.It was agreed that Piper could use all this as he desired including building several replicas/reproductions. Whether in writing or just verbally Ferrari gave him an, at the time, an unused sn 0900. It would appear no one else was made aware of this or much else of what took place between the two. So not being aware someone later realized 0900 appeared unused and assigned it to a new chassis. Comments?? tongascrew
     
  24. macca

    macca Formula Junior

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    P4-0900 Photos by paulmacca | Photobucket

    An article by Doug Nye originally published in a now-defunct British magazine named Old Motor in October 1979.

    I'll wait for everyone to read it and interpret it in their own way before I comment.

    Paul M
     
  25. ginge82

    ginge82 Formula 3

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    #50 ginge82, Apr 1, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2014
    Where on earth is the evidence that Ferrari gave Piper permission to build as many P cars as he desired 'including several replicas/reproductions'?

    In fact where is the evidence to show that 0900 was intended to be a continuation chassis/car to be built upon and not merely just a spare to go along with the numerous other spares Piper purchased to allow him to continue to race the cars he already had or wanted to acquire?

    We have Piper's word and not much else.
     

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