The Piper "P4" 0900, Just What is it ?

Excellent idea for a thread.

 

The best way to get people to post true information in an on-line forum is to post up some bad information, and the corrections come flooding in. Because I have a lot of experience with the former (just think for a minute what the screen name "180 Out" might mean), my answer to the question, "just what is it?," is that the Piper motor car with chassis number 0900 is a replica of the P4 model of Ferrari sports prototypes. The Piper 0900 was built from the ground up in a shop or shops, none of which were subject to the ownership, custody or control of Ferrari S.p.A. The Piper 0900 lacks many features of a Ferrari P4, including most notably a "330" (4-liter) engine. Rather, it is running a 4.2 liter "350" engine, that had been assembled by Ferrari for use in its Can Am program. Some of the body panels incorporated into the Piper 0900 were made for Ferrari for use on a Ferrari P4. Enzo Ferrari sold the engine and a collection of other parts to David Piper, as well as a set of plans for the Ferrari P4 chassis. It is unknown if these plans reflect the as-built condition of any Ferrari P4, or if Mr. Piper followed these plans in the construction of the Piper 0900. It has been claimed that Enzo Ferrari also reserved chassis number 0900 for the Piper replica. I don't know if Mr. Piper makes that claim. Ferrari S.p.A. has used that chassis number on a Ferrari car, and disavows any official blessing to the use of chassis number 0900 on the Piper replica.

OK, that's about what I know off the top of my head. Let the flames begin!

 

I have quite a few photos of 0900 (the first one!) with body clips off, mostly taken on a visit to DP's workshop nearly 20 years ago; a magazine article by Doug Nye from 1979, not very long after the car first appeared; notes from talking to DP at a couple of events; and sundry close-up paddock photos.

But if I make any of that available it's just likely to attract snipers, so I don't think I'll bother.

Next?

Paul M

 

so does all the info stated above mean if the car ever shows up in Italy the authorities will confiscate the vehicle and then crush it faster than you can say the phrase 'Enzo's ghost looms large'?

 

An interesting idea for a thread, provided it does not deteriorate into another David Piper bashing exercise by the ill informed, speculators and axe grinders!

Piper was (and is) first and foremost a racer. From the outset he modified and tweaked his own cars in an effort to improve their performance, with - I guess - little thought about their resale value.

He bought two GTOs and two 250LMs from the factory and flew the Ferrari flag across Europe and Southern Africa, depending largely upon start and prize money to finance his activities

He then went on to drive for Maranello Concessionaires, NART, SEFAC and others and has continued to campaign his stable of historic racers.

I have heard from several sources, who are themselves well connected, that Piper was known affectionately as Nostra David - or Our David - by the old guard at Maranello,

All this has no direct relevance to the provenance of 0900 but it might suggest that the drawings were perhaps passed on informally by Enzo, unbeknown to his commercial people, and it seems quite likely that the car has evolved over the years, so has probably drifted away from its original appearance and mechanical configuration.

 

Well for a start this post is in the wrong section of fchat is it not, according to the rules laid down by admim?

Recreations and non period re bodies sums up the car, and I am no detractor, I think its fantastic

 

Maybe Napolis knows a little more that the these infos.

 

No this is fine..

The details are at the beginning of Mr. G's thread, where they all go travelling to Piper's barn, to look at frames.

The OTHER thing to know, is that "Enzo gave him the plans, and a VIN to use" is well true.

He then commissioned three frames!

So to be accurate:

0900a, that he kept. The car he still runs as "0900"
0900b, Not sure the current location of this "spare"
0900c, let's just say that the is the one that Mr. G purchased from Piper that day in the barn.

Sal his mechanic, picked it out as "looking correct" and he was right, upon further investigation, this is the frame that contained the salvaged remains of 0846, it was the only one, of the three, that turned out to NOT match the P4 blueprints.

Because it was a P3/4.
Different dimensions in the wheelbase, IIRC as well as engine mounting points, for the earlier block.

I don't mean to speak for anyone.
I was fortunate to have a copy of the "0846 Papers" from not long after they made these discoveries.
This is also all in the other thread if you take the time to read and follow along.

I feel myself that given the backstory 0900 is certainly a continuation car, created "in period" after the factory moved on, despite it's dissonant clash with the 312PB that also has the legitimate factory VIN of that number.

 

He's shared freely with all that have asked, you have a copy?

 

Quite fair and true.

 

Whatever else, whatever it may or may not be, Piper's 0900 is the closest you are ever going to get to seeing to a real P4 racing on track, so just count your blessings and say thanks every time you see it. I certainly do.

Long live David Piper !

 

So is there another Ferrari with the serial number "0900?"

 

Does anyone know exactly the length of time that passed between the P4's being created for the factory and Piper's chassis being built and his car completed?

 

That is the whole crux of the matter though is it not?

Of course:-

Shelby can produce continuation Shelby Cobras

AC can produce continuation AC Cobras

Aston Martin can produce continuation DB4 Zagatos

Lola can produce continuation Lola T70s

etc etc etc

Ferrari therefore can produce continuation Ferrari P4s

but can David Piper produce continuation Ferrari P4s? I say yes but that's just an opinion not a fact.

 

Didier Peroni drove the completed 0900 in 1982 for starters

 

Well said

My understanding was that in addition to being given the plans and the VIN the frame was also made at the factory using the correct tubing - or am I wrong ?

 

David does say Enzo gave him the P4 blueprints on the video and in writing to me.

"0900's" chassis was not made at the factory. David says it was made with correct sized tubing by the shop that made the original P4 chassis for Ferrari around 1974 long after The Ferrari Factory had stopped making and racing P4's and was racing 312PB's the chassis numbers of which lead us to 312PB Chassis 0900.

In 1977 Ferrari sold the last 312PB chassis 0900 to Mr. Chinetti. There a bill of Certificate of Origin from Ferrari S.p.A that clearly shows that.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142965710-post3041.html

 

Ferrari S.p.A definitely authorised chassis number 0900 for the 312PB they sold Mr. Chinetti in 1977 a chassis number that follows the other 312PB's that Ferrari made.

 

So the original P4's were completed in 1967. SEVERAL years later Piper's chassis is completed?

Do we have an accurate date as to when his car was completely finished?