The journey of a one owner boxer – 1979 BB 512 | FerrariChat

The journey of a one owner boxer – 1979 BB 512

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by exotic30, Jul 2, 2013.

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  1. exotic30

    exotic30 Karting

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    #1 exotic30, Jul 2, 2013
    This 1979 BB 512 is a one-owner car, having been bought by my father in law, Nick, in 1979 off the showroom floor in Italy. The car was subsequently driven through Italy and ferried over to Greece where Nick toured in late 1979. In early 1980 it was shipped to Amerispec in the US for federalization and then spent all of its life in Massachusetts USA.

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    The car was driven primarily in the 80s and early 90s and currently has around 22,000 km on the clock. All records and every piece of registration, literature, etc. that was ever sent from Ferrari has been preserved from the beginning.

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    Nick, with an extensive background in electrical engineering, used some of his skills at really understanding how these cars truly work, as exemplified by some of the notes he kept on this car and others over time.

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    With the car having had a last major service in 1995 and covering around 500 km between 1995 and 2013 (and being mostly stored between 2003 and 2013) it was time for an extensive restoration.

    After a false start or two with restoration work in the New England area (between 2008 and early 2013), this car has finally taken a trip to reach the skilled hands of Paul Newman. It will be there for a while, getting pretty much everything addressed in terms of mechanics and possibly body work.

    As time goes on Paul will contribute to this thread with any developments and findings.

    This is a picture of the car as it was in 2008 south of Boston and then in April 2013 as it arrived at Paul’s in basket form but complete.

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  2. Jon H

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    #2 Jon H, Jul 2, 2013
    Another great (to be) Boxer restoration thread!
     
  3. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    #3 tbakowsky, Jul 2, 2013
    She is in good hands now.
     
  4. wlanast

    wlanast Formula 3
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    #4 wlanast, Jul 2, 2013
    I say this as one of 100% Greek descent: if that Boxer spent any significant time there, Newman is gonna have one hell of a mess to sort out, lol!

    Thanks for posting and keep us updated.
     
  5. exotic30

    exotic30 Karting

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    #5 exotic30, Jul 2, 2013
    The car only had a few weeks in both Italy and Greece as Nick's background is Greek as well he wanted to drive it through his homeland.

    With Paul addressing pretty much *everything* on the car I think that we'll have a good car on our hands again.
     
  6. Mario Pano

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    #6 Mario Pano, Jul 3, 2013
    Besides being raised in Greece I have kept cars I shipped from the US to use there for years at a time.
    I found service there by real techs way better than the US.

    Of course Newman is in Canada so the car will be in good hands there for sure ....different values there!

    Mario
     
  7. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #7 Newman, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It was an interesting journey to pick the car up. I spent 2 nights on the US side before crossing the border with the boxer, the last night was in an $80 room - the best I could get at Niagara and not a great part of town. Crossed in the morning without a hitch and 3 hours later unloaded bins of parts, exhaust and loose heat shields etc (seen in the foreground) and the engine behind it.
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  8. 4right

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    #8 4right, Jul 3, 2013
    Wow, you got that engine out and apart quick.
     
  9. Newman

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    #9 Newman, Jul 3, 2013
    Came that way, thats part of the basket deal.
     
  10. 4right

    4right F1 Rookie
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    #10 4right, Jul 4, 2013
    I was just trying to have some fun, looking forward to watching this one!
     
  11. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #11 Newman, Jul 4, 2013
    You got me
     
  12. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #12 Newman, Jul 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I split the block and pulled the liners. The car is a low miles car and it shows inside the crank case and gearbox (liners not so much).

    I bored the liners to .7mm OS and they cleaned right up leaving another .3mm for final hone to fit the pistons I had made.

    Gave the gearbox an inspection and checked ring gear backlash and pattern on both the drive and coast side of the teeth (drive side shown) and both are great.
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  13. AHudson

    AHudson F1 Rookie
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    #13 AHudson, Jul 4, 2013
    Paul (and other restorers out there), without asking you to write a novel, how do you actually 'start' this with the owner? Meaning -

    1. Does the owner express a vision, then you help define what that means in time and dollars? Or...
    2. Is it more, 'budget' first, then you tell the owner what 'fits' within that and choose priorities?
    3. Realizing 'open checkbook' restorations are more myth than reality, does anyone ever use the mildly rational version of , 'Keep my bill to under <$x> a month until it's done" ?

    Curious for a few reasons. Fascinating work you folks do, making dreams come true within the harsh reality of worldly constraints.
     
  14. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

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    #14 open roads, Jul 4, 2013
    I´m just happy to hear that it´s now in Paul´s capable and loving hands. A nice ¨feel good¨ coming on.
     
  15. turbo-joe

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    #15 turbo-joe, Jul 4, 2013
    this CP pattern looks exact so as it has to be. hopefully scott will also have a look here?
    anyway nice job to do :)
     
  16. exotic30

    exotic30 Karting

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    #16 exotic30, Jul 4, 2013
    I'll chime in here briefly with regards to this project only as it was a more unique situation. The car had been quoted for a refresher/restoration twice prior and some work had been started with a New England shop in February this year. With this particular shop, I had gotten an 'initial quote' first and after work started I was slowly pushed into an 'open checkbook' scenario which I was not comfortable with.

    I then called Paul and he gave me a detailed quote up front for every single subsystem in the car (engine rebuild, suspension, brakes, etc.). The quote was very fair and it included something very important for me - visibility and options...

    The car was pulled from the first shop and sent to Paul (hence the basket comments :)). For the last few months, with the work progressing, Paul and I have been in a two way dialogue - about options and stages for different parts of the refresher/restoration.

    My desire is to work within a budget but I am open and defer to the expert who's working on the car for suggestions/etc. At the end of the day it's doing what's also financially sensible...
     
  17. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #17 Newman, Jul 4, 2013
    1) The owner has a vision and a number in mind. After listening to the vision Im always asked to put a number to it, roughly. Thats tough to do and most times unfair to everyone involved. As long as the owner understands that the numbers are estimates with many unknowns while standing in front of an assembled (or disassembled in this case) non-running car its usually a pretty smooth process. I give estimates with ranges in this case because I understand 99% of the people out there need some sort of number for comfort, they just cant jump in not knowing and pay whatever it takes. After that if they're happy we move to the next step.

    2) When Im told a specific budget and its made clear its not to be broken I can tell right away if I should even get into the project. Just standing beside the car in many cases I can tell the number vs what I see is needed isn't even close so its not viable. I prefer to do a PPI on a potential project if I think its viable this way everyone knows what were dealing with then I can make an estimate based on what I can see with my eyes. Again, there are always unknowns.

    3) Keeping a monthly max is the norm so I work within that otherwise its my problem to carry the expense over an extra month. Thats a great motivator.


    Most times the vision changes once the owner knows the situation with the car before starting the project. Thats what the PPI does. I always give options, you have to otherwise its an unpleasant journey for everyone and thats just not fun. I make estimates taking overlap into consideration. As an example Ive seen brakes and a suspension restoration quoted out as two separate jobs. If I have the suspension out, the brake labour is free because its all apart anyway. Overlap is a great way to lose the job or get a one time customer.
     
  18. qwazipsycho

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    #18 qwazipsycho, Jul 4, 2013
    Ya I'm here. I saw it. I'm jelous cuz mine's not quite like that yet. Maybe I'll get there today.


    I have a question - What is the inside of the gearbox and crankcase coated with? And why isn't mine coated with it??
     
  19. AHudson

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    #19 AHudson, Jul 4, 2013
    Thanks for the insights guys, really. Helps. And thanks to father-in-law Nick for getting this whole thing started way back!
     
  20. Newman

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    #20 Newman, Jul 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Suspension out and broken down for plating. Bushings out etc.

    The car came with one rotor on it, not sure why.

    Control arms are silver vs the spindle steering arms. I can find no gold on the arms anywhere same goes for most of the suspension hardware with the exception of the nylock nuts and a handful of bolts which are gold.

    Ill repaint the rear uprights, they are clearly black. With the suspension out Ill clean and detail the frame and inner fender area.
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  21. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    #21 turbo-joe, Jul 4, 2013
    this is a 2 component color. this should protect the oil from the aluminum dust and abrasion
    I have here 4 TR gearboxes, two are coated and two not. so I also wonder about that it is not all the same. this is italian :(
    but also the engine inside is coated with the same material.
     
  22. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

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    #22 Pizzaman Chris, Jul 4, 2013
    Never got the memo on this cool resto project that Paul is tackling.

    Paul, to bad I didn't know you where down in my neck of the woods. Would have loved to have met you.

    Well anyways I will be keeping an eye on this thread. Always enjoy the Master and his projects.


    Can I call you "the Master"? I don't want to piss off Verell again. :)
     
  23. michael platzer

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    #23 michael platzer, Jul 5, 2013
    what s/n is the car? cant tell from the papers.
     
  24. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #24 Newman, Jul 5, 2013
    Dont want to share that, sorry.
     
  25. exotic30

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    #25 exotic30, Jul 5, 2013
    At the original owner's request we've asked Paul not to share this while the car is going through restoration.

    When and if it will be shared by Paul or I it will be posted in this thread so stay tuned :)
     
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