Yes but then arguments would rage, it wasnt my fault Mr X ran over the kerb, threw stones on the track and i got a puncture at a critical part of the track which resulted in a red flag. team principals would be jumping up and down saying it only needed a yellow The way a yellow flag is waved also plays a crucial role and has different meanings. The driver must slow down at the sight of a yellow flag, and double waved yellow flags indicate that the driver must be prepared to stop until the situation is resolved. Its simply unworkable if you think about it. When you open a can of worms to satisfy Mr Toto, other teams will demand the rule is extended to Q1 & Q2 as pole for them is a higher grid position.[/QUOTE] Nothing to do with Toto Wolff. Adopting that rule would just bring F1 in line with other series. Toto Wolff didn't invent that rule! Any incident during qualifs influences the outcome, and whoever brings a red flag it should not benefit from it, but have his time deleted. Very simple.
I have the strange impression here that some will not be satisfied until Mercedes does not make 100 percent of the poles and 100 percent of the victories .
So you have extended this to Q1 & 2 now? So now its any incident during qualifying AND whoever brings a red flag. I think you need to re-work the wording ;-) What time is deleted, the one he was on or one from a previous lap or just his best time! There are endless scenarios that would call this rule into disrepute, your just focusing on a red flag incident for someone competing for pole, what if someone like Latifi causes a red flag but hammy (or any top runner) is denied pole. Or is the rule for those just competing for pole!
+1 What if a very fast car has his lap interrupted in Q1 or Q2? Then finally when he has the chance to set a time, a red flag happens? He's still interrupted
Yes. during Q3 only. I don't see why it's such a problem introducing a change for qualif, when the FIA doesn't stop changing the rules. They will introduce qualif races this year, they changed the qualification format several times, and the point scoring system; proof that the rules are never set in stone. The idea is to make qualif and racing fairer. There are other things the FIA could also try, like the "long lap" as in MotoGP, which avoids a track limit offender to do a "drive through" in pit lane, but penalises him all the same in complete safety. I find that clever and efficient.
You still see red flags even with the rule. No one is going to change their approach if they change the rule, just the result would be different once adjusted for the penalty. I hate too many stupid rules too, but this is not one that ever stuck me as such. I wouldn’t. You can’t expect zero mistakes. But I think there has to be a penalty for ruining the show for the fans, not necessarily because it was unfair to other drivers.
All good but on most normal circuits (not Monaco) it would be much easier to trigger a yellow with a spin or slow trip (or intentional beaching) through a gravel trap at no risk to the car if one wanted to intentionally sabotage a session. As for a deliberate attempt at doing a Schumacher or Rosberg I’m pretty sure there is existing wording in the sporting rules to punish a driver so inclined.
Yes Toto got so pissed he didn't knew where to turn, even little mermaid was criticizing his team...not a good weekend i suppose..perhaps Suzie put him with the dog instead!
I wasn't commenting on penalizing nefarious intent...I think you just do that on a case by case basis like with driving incidents. More rules for yellows, etc seems like a bad idea to me honestly. The lap deletion is for being a wanker, not an assumption it was done with intent. Yah exactly. The FIA has pretty broad authority if someone has done something unsporting.
A yellow period isn't compatible with a timed qualif session. Only a red flag can be used if a car crashes, is stranded on the track or presents a danger. A lap deletion sanctionning the guilty party seems a sensible outcome of the situation. What is regretable is that some people on this forum consider any suggestion only from a partisan point of view. The point is not if a rule would favour Mercedes, or punish Ferrari ,(as it has been intimated), but rather if it would clarify a grey area. Also, discussing racing issues on a Ferrarichat F1 forum doesn't make one a troll.
Fair enough, though a wa.., er, poor driver, you’d expect would not be in the hunt for a great starting spot anyway. Such a rule, though, would be useful to get a poor driver to the back of the grid and avoid more potential interference in the race proper. Noted, but recall that all this talk of “IndyCar rule” came about as a result of some persons implying—though not explicitly and by saying such a rule would cancel the benefit of a red flag IF done intentionally—that the Monaco incident was intentional on the part of Leclerc.
True, but it doesn’t change the fact that some are on here with the sole intention of trolling others.
Those that advocate extending the Q3 period, the ruling is already there, its up to the Clerk of the course to determine if the period is extended. FIA 2021 Sporting Regulations:- 31.7 The clerk of the course may interrupt practice as often and for as long as he thinks necessary to clear the track or to allow the recovery of a car. However, only during qualifying practice will the session be extended as a result. Simple? William ; This is not a matter of being argumentative for no reason, the point being made by me and others is that the scenario you picture in your head is not that simple. There are countless scenarios in a incident that a one paragraph rule would not cover. There would be uproar if a car is stranded through mechanical failure and his best time is deleted, think more of the entrants as a whole rather than a few battling for pole position.
Unfortunately William you are painting a grey area. It doesnt exist so why get out the canvas. Best tony
Yes, the Q[123] was being run in a "kind of weather" and in the few minutes left, everyone had a shot at pole (next Q) in that set of conditions. It has been argued that adding 2-3 minutes would undo the damage that the crash setup the red flag period. During that period the weather could change, the track condition could change,... Which might make times set after the red flag incomparable to the times set before the red flag. So, lets say it was raining and rained at the same rate through when the qualifying period was to have run. Now, after the red flag, the track is "greener" but since it is now dry, times after the red flag will be massively faster. So, if you have a car that is slow in the rain and fast in the dry, all you need is for someone to bin their car, gaining a big advantage. Vice versa also holds, where the times before the red flag are massively faster than times after the red flag. In effect, if someone knows rain is coming they can have someone bin their car, setting up a red flag, and gaining a big advantage.
We could say it increases the chances of cheating, the No 2 driver could be used to be the fall guy giving the No 1 a better chance of pole or climbing up the grid much more than he (or the team) would of achieved. Its a farcical idea and riddled with problems to control. Best left as it is imho but i am open to have my mind changed. Like all rules there will be some smart arse who will find a loophole. aka the current technical regulations
I was actually thinking of the #2 driver on a support team (williams, Alfa Tauri, ...) giving up his position so as to advance the positions of the head team (both drivers).
I was hoping the rule referred to was moving the timing line before pit entry to eliminate the need for a slow cool down lap. Waste of time, gets cars in the way, and would allow for less fuel in the car during hot lap. IMHO Indy car has that right on, F1 should take a look
Every driver gets to be a wanker sometimes; some are all the time Leclerc is one of the best drivers on the grid... Yah I don't have all the context. I just think it is a good rule based on my experience.
