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Starts stalls after 1 second, then starts and runs well after a few few tries

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Alden, May 24, 2019.

  1. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 25, 2010
    2,706
    Central Florida
    My '88 Mondial 3.2 has always started on one bump of the key, no throttle, she started and ran at idle immediately.

    Now, after (3-4 months) in climate controlled storage, I put some Techron in the tank to clean the injectors/fuel system, changed oil/filter/fuel and while I have always run her on 90 octane ethanol free fuel, I filled her up with 93 Octane Shell USA fuel, I also adding a few ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil to keep the mechanical fuel injection/upper cylinders lubed, as I have done for the past four years of my ownership. Ran out that tank of 93 shell and filled her with 90 octane (US) non-ethanol fuel.

    Now, since the 93 octane fill up, she starts, runs a second or so, and stalls, Floor it, full throttle, crank, crank it again, then (most of the) she starts and runs great, she always runs awesome once I get her started. She will also start and run, with no throttle sometimes when she is warm. ?? I had disconnected the 9th injector (Cold start injector @ the top of the plenum) for a while, but plugged in back in when we had a few cold days here in Florida, USA.

    Fuel pump? Fuel Filter? Accumulator? Where do I start to identify this new challenge? Did I "knock something loose in there" with the techron? this is horrible, but........



    Alden
     
  2. srephwed

    srephwed F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2012
    3,017
    street,md
    Full Name:
    fred brown
    Fuel pump has a start relay and a run relay. Ever had a starter go click click then start? Maybe the run relay isn't working all the time.
     
  3. spicedriver

    spicedriver Formula 3

    Feb 1, 2011
    1,724
    Techron is great stuff, don't worry about that.

    Sounds like maybe your accumulator is going bad. Has it ever been changed ? US models have a return line that goes back to the tank. If you pull that line off and fuel spills out, you will need to replace it.

    Varnish that gets past the fuel filter will clog the input screen in the WUR first. This creates a lean running condition - rough running, no power, backfires.

    I am on record against storage. My toys get played with at least once a week.
     
  4. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
    2,405
    Uk
    Put a voltmeter onto the fuel pump supply and see if you have steady volts. Pump might be sticking or volt supply problem, as its probs from cold starting i would think accumulator is not problem.
     
  5. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 25, 2010
    2,706
    Central Florida
    It does the same thing on warm starts, sometimes. Other times, it will start right up and idle with one crank. ?? Someone point me to an accumulator and fuel pump. Both are original, as far as I know, so that would seem to be a good place to start.

    Storage? I agree, and try to run her at least once a week, but I had been playing with my Jag for a few weeks so the Mondial did not get run.

    Hit a deer with the Jag, went off road and totaled it. I'm OK, car is OK, except every panel was dented or scratched. Guy flew in from Indiana last week, bought her and drove her home.
    Alden
     
  6. spicedriver

    spicedriver Formula 3

    Feb 1, 2011
    1,724
    Remove the right rear wheel, and fiberglass wheel well cover. The fuel filter, and accumulator will be just forward of the wheel well. Replacing the fuel filter while you're in there is a good idea.

    The pump is behind a large metal cover underneath that will need to be removed. Cover is just forward of the engine bay. Car needs to be jacked up. A bunch of 10mm bolts removed, and cover will drop down. The fuel pump is right there behind the cover.
     
  7. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2005
    1,734
    Toronto, Canada
    Full Name:
    Andy
    The symptoms seem more electrical than fuel related to me, but for your commenting on the fuel and additives that correlate with your problem (you might have a tank of bad gas), I would have gone down the electrical path of diagnosis. The burned fuse box connector issue would present this type of symptom. Take that connector off and inspect and clean the contacts on the board and connector. Maybe swap the fuel pump relay for one of the others that is the same. Then, my next bet would be a worn rotor/distributor cap, or simply spark plugs that need a change. Check a plug and gap, or better yet just replace them with cheap old fashioned non irridium NGK's. The rotors and distributors are a pain to get at in the front, but the rear one is accessible and comes off easily for a look.

    The accumulators do fail, its just a rubber diaphram inside, maybe the alcohol in the fuel degraded the rubber that was on the verge of failing anyways? But this device is usually a culprit in hot starts not initial cold starts. The fuel pumps are much more rare to fail the originals were better made than current replacement items, and if the car runs well when started the fuel pump is not where I would be looking. Many fuel system problems would not have the car running so well after starting up, unless the cause is electrical to the fuel pump.

    My experience with my Mondial is issues have simple cause and not very Ferrari specific.
     
  8. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 25, 2010
    2,706
    Central Florida
    Fixed! It seemed like she was starving for fuel on start up.

    It was electrical, thanks Moysiuan!

    I had already checked the fuze for the start up fuel pump and the relays, all of them, were replaced with Bosch sealed units only 3 years ago. But I decided to replace the fuse and the relay to the start up fuel circuit and bam, she starts and runs like her old self every time.

    So, I guess I could install the old fuse and relay and see if it was the fuse or the relay, but I just threw the old fuse and relay in the trash and went for a drive.
    Alden
     
    moysiuan and davemqv like this.

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