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Starter Relay Kit Arrived

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Rapalyea, Apr 11, 2015.

  1. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 25, 2010
    2,706
    Central Florida
  2. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 22, 2006
    2,164
    Belgium - Europe
    The starter is accessible through the right rear wheelarch. Take the wheel off and the inner liner, loosen the bolt a bit which fixes the alternator and behind the alternator you see the starter. I mounted such a relay too and had to work from underneath the car and from the right rear wheel.
     
  3. Karsya Eins

    Karsya Eins Karting

    Jun 17, 2014
    92
    Albany, NY
    Full Name:
    Demostene Romanucci
    Thank you, Stekkefun4! right now I have both rear wheels off, and the fender liners out, and it's a tight fit. What did I expect, right?

    Any additional insights, such as how to pick the correct wire for the ignition switch. The directions say "red with a black stripe."

    I bought a maintenance book, pdf from a member and it is missing the electrical diagrams. I'll pm them, I am sure it was an oversight.

    I plan on taking pics and writing up my assault on this fix in a little greater detail than I have found, so far.

    Again THANKS stekkefun4!
     
  4. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    Hi Guys, having created my own solenoid bypass relay kit and fitted it some 2 years ago I thought I should report in.
    At the time when I fitted it Emilys father, an electrical genius, explained that in time, 'Back EMF' from the solenoid would eventually burn the contacts on the relay.
    Well, this has indeed happened and the relay had to be changed out again. Doing this every 2 years isn't that bad, however the fix is to take the EMF spike to ground via a diode I'm told. Now this sounds like I'm some kind of Guru on the subject.....well I'm not, however having had it explained to me it now makes total sense.
    So, once I have sorted mine out I will post the fix here as usual.
    All the best Bell
     
  5. braq

    braq Karting

    Mar 29, 2010
    203
    Hill Island
    Full Name:
    Paul XXXcX
    Hi Bell,

    to detail this a bit more:

    The coil, after having being on 12V, will induce a voltage itself from the magnetic field (decreasing), and it is reversed polarity. So a diode to short this induction voltage is to be put between 85 and 86 and in a fashion that it is not conducting in regular operation (but will do so for the reversed and induced voltage). I have seen relays that have this already incorporated,

    cheers

    braq
     
  6. braq

    braq Karting

    Mar 29, 2010
    203
    Hill Island
    Full Name:
    Paul XXXcX
    Question,

    If the relay was engaging unwarranted (while car is parked and unattended), but the car was left in neutral, the only "bad" thing I could see happening is the starter turning the engine until the battery is drained, but since the fuel relay is not engaged at the same time, the engine would not start.

    I also can't really see the relay switching on itself (due to getting wet as suggested),

    wondering,

    braq
     
  7. gsfent

    gsfent Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2009
    1,046
    PB County, Florida
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    I put mine in the rear trunk, mounted on the same panel as the Motronic boxes. If the relay gets wet, that will be the least of my problems!

    Regards,
    Jerry
     
  8. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 25, 2010
    2,706
    Central Florida
    Can you post a spec or part # for the relay with the diode? Or spec of the diode and a schematic or pic?

    I have no hot start issues with my 3.2, but I have the relay set ready to install next time I am "in there."
    Alden
     
  9. braq

    braq Karting

    Mar 29, 2010
    203
    Hill Island
    Full Name:
    Paul XXXcX
    #34 braq, Sep 4, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
    Alden,

    sure, here is a write-up, since the relay is not driven by transistors only the part about possibly reducing the lifetime of the relay itself applies,

    Do I need a flyback diode with an automotive relay? - Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange

    a search like this, using automotive relay diode
    automotive relay diode | eBay

    will either get you the socket or relay incorporating the diode.
    Now only make sure to use 85 to ground (so in normal operation the diode does not conduct),

    cheers

    braq
     
  10. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
    2,969
    USA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Hi All,
    My Mondial is being put back together and I'm considering doing this while they're at it, as it seems like a quick job, especially since the car is in pieces and they're also installing a new fuse box.
    However, as I am a complete moron with anything that has the word "electric" in it, I thought I'd ask for the "slow guy" explanation.
    First of all, this is the kit...?
    Starter Relay Kit WR1 - Bosch - | Pelican Parts

    Second, does this come with the diode? I don't even know what a diode is, so I'm at a bit of a disadvantage here. Lol.

    Last - this is a quick and easy job, right? I've never had the car not start, but if it's really a matter of 30 bucks and half an hour, it seems worth it. I think?
     
  11. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 25, 2010
    2,706
    Central Florida
    #36 Alden, Sep 4, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
    That is the kit with no diode, decent price too, you may find them cheaper but make sure it includes the fuse and relay socket. Ebay has some advertized as kits that only include the relay and the ad text is not clear on this.

    I have no hot start issues but the kit is a no brainer for $30, I have on on the shelf ready to go in next time I have her on the lift.

    I have been thinking about the diode. I think it is a good mod but not sure of the value if we are talking about the risk of wearing out a $7 relay on a car that is not a DD anyway. But "while you are in there" you might as well do it.

    I have complete sealed Bosch relay and fuse sets in stock to go with your new fuse box. The new relays make a huge difference in how the electrical systems perform. I have fuse sets with LED type "blown" indicators too. Shoot me a PM or see my ad in the for sale section.
    Alden
     
  12. braq

    braq Karting

    Mar 29, 2010
    203
    Hill Island
    Full Name:
    Paul XXXcX
    I have been thinking about the diode. I think it is a good mod but not sure of the value if we are talking about the risk of wearing out a $7 relay on a car that is not a DD anyway. But "while you are in there" you might as well do it.


    Exactly, if you go with a kit and are not into electrics, stick to it: the worst that could happen is that you need to replace the relay earlier, it is inexpensive, getting to it may be the worst (why not mount it in a easy to reach location?).

    If you buy part by part, go for the diode (after all it is only 4 connections, switched 12V and ground for the relay and the 12V from the solenoid connector through the relay)

    cheers

    braq
     
  13. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
    2,969
    USA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Lol. This is how that reads to me...

    "Exactly, if you go with a kit and are not into electrics, stick to it: the worst that could happen is that you need to replace the relay earlier, it is inexpensive, getting to it may be the worst (why not mount it in a easy to reach location?).

    If you buy part by part, go for the diode (H#&AG)()()($%$%$JATSV 4 connections, switched 12V KJHWIQNVXIsbKHIOQthe 12V from the LKAOKWNKB BS"""!""!^W^%*@ the relay)".

    I think I'll just stick with the kit and ask my mechanic to do it. :)
     
  14. Christofer Olsson

    Mar 30, 2018
    15
    Hello, Do you know how many amps this relay should be with? I also have a relay mounted on my 512TR but i need to replace it and want it to be of correct type, that is why i am asking. Do you know why there is a fuse also because this is missing on mine. Thanks
     
  15. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
    2,430
    Uk
    The relay is going to take a lot less amps than the original solenoid requirements, so the signal wire to engage the relay will cope fine.
     
  16. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    Hi Guys, just to update you , I never actually did the diode mod and yes my relay does start to fail after two years of weekly use of the car. All I do is swap out the relay and good to go for another couple of years. All the best Bell
     

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