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Starter Relay Kit Arrived

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Rapalyea, Apr 11, 2015.

  1. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
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    David Rapalyea alias
    This is a fist class item. Not only are the parts high quality with long wires and fittings on the ends. What is the kicker though, it has first class INSTRUCTIONS. Its not a difficult thing to figure out, but now its just by the numbers.

    I have never had failure to activate starter. But several times there has been just a bit of delay from turning the key and the activation. I recommend every one to get one of these things. I would have paid $75 and considered myself fortunate.

    I may just install it and be done with it.
     
  2. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    Hey Rapalyea, can you post up the instructions?
    Just wanted to know if there was an easier pick up point than the way I was going to do it.
    All the best, Bell
     
  3. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
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    Yeah, I'll give it a try. It may take me awhile. My stupid computer downloads my jpgs in some sort of obscure sub-folder perhaps six deep that I have never found. I can print/screen for normal photos, like the ones posted in the past. Fine print of the instructions might require the actual original image for resolution.

    I might now have motivation to find out where the hell my computer hides my jpg downloads!
     
  4. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
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    #4 Rapalyea, Apr 12, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
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    #5 Rapalyea, Apr 12, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. cockrill

    cockrill Formula 3

    Jan 23, 2008
    1,057
    Frisco, TX
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    Jeremy Cockrill
    For those of you wanting to install the starter relay, be aware that some Mondials have a heat shield covering the starter. My car has the shield, and I could barely see the starter, let alone install the relay. Laying beneath my car with a flashlight, I couldn't see how to remove the shield. Evidently not all cars have the shield. (For reference, my car is a 1984 Euro Coupe...)
     
  7. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
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    My US 1986 Coupe does not have a factory heat shield. I did buy a special reflectictive wrap for it. Apparently hot rodders get the same problem with small block chevys when aftermarket headers run to close.

    How would you replace the starter on your car?
     
  8. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie
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    May 25, 2013
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    Tijn
    #8 MvT, Apr 12, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    All Mondials have this shield :)

    Assuming one has the shield. First thing is to unbolt the nuts of the lower bracket (#48) of the shield. Basically you unbolt one bolt of the engine mount and one from the shield. This gives you movement to unbolt the upper bolts of the shield.

    One unbolted you will need to bend the shield a bit to take it out on the side of the bellhousing or altenator if you take that one off. You can take it out from the Alternator side and bellhousing. I like to do it via the bellhousing side, but it is a bit of pain to find the right angle to take it out. Once you know it is way faster then the alternator side. Obviously you will need to take off the alternator.

    HTH
    Tijn
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
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    #9 Rapalyea, Apr 12, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2015
    Two years ago under car replacing clutch slave cylindar with an Alpha Unit. (Do Jesuits still do scourging? I volunteer. Such a bad choice that it did not rise to bad. But thats a separate matter.)

    Anyway, the starter was just staring me right in the face. I was getting some hot starter solinoid delay, so I put an open end wrench on the large hot wire nut and it was loose 1/4 turn. The delay went away until the entire starter went away. That was an easy and cheap enough fix.

    So I am perplexed. Contessa Prugna Metallica would do Nitsche proud. She is dressed in gold metal flake clear coat paint of which seems Oscar de Larenta rare. The leather interior that smells like a woman in heat (but thats just me) runs like a scalded cat. Always wants to play and is tough as nails.

    So where the hell is my starter heat shield?

    PS: My local wrench did in one day and asked what I would pay for the labor. I said $100. He said fine after he had already done the work.
     
  10. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
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    PPS

    Me and my local wrench have been doing this for years. I had him plug in a 347 Ford supercharded stroker into my 1991 Mark VII years ago. After doing the work he asked what I would pay. I said $5,000. He said $3,000.

    Later I swapped that car to him for to rebuild my 1965 Corvair motor. I had been practicing torgue braking drag starts with that 347 stroker and quite litterally smoked the transmission. I was so clueless I smoked it twice before realizing what I had done. When I say smoked I mean billows of smoke. Forest fire worthy smoke.

    But the car had other little problems that kept coming up after 190,000 miles. For instance, the door-open chime only chimed when the door was closed. The compass always read the wrong direction. The automatic climate control worked fine but the temperature indicator alway read something like 240F. Or some such.

    And worst of all the valve lifters in the new 347 stroker had a slight valve lifter rustle. I hate that. The engine was, shall we say, powerfull at 7.5 psi possitive displacement supercharger on top of a 5.0 Ford. And the car still looked good with relatively new paint and leather interior. So the trade was done anyway but I came to miss the old lady.

    Then my buddy directed me to another Mark VII that looks near show room condition. So my local wrench is recreating the old car for me. All the suspension mods, supercharger, cryo dipped rotors, custom specified brake pads etc. Should be ready in a month or two. I am confident he will ask what it was worth to do the work.

    And I will make a generous offer. But this is a digression.
     
  11. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
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    David Lind
  12. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
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    I get to babbling on. Pay no attention to me other then for potential amusements ;) Since I am now officially and old fart at 68 years old I attribute any drooling to old age and advanced state of decline.
     
  13. Faber

    Faber Formula Junior

    May 5, 2011
    947
    TX Hill Country
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    Tom G.
    Haha...you don't sound old w/ all your activities - Why specifically are you adding this relay?
     
  14. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
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    These cars have weak wiring in many places. You may notice widschield wipers and power windows might be lethargic. The same thing happens to some Mondial starter solinoids. You turn the key and hear a light click and nothing more. That is because the wiring will not pass enough votage/current to activate a hot soaked starter. There is nothing worse then a hot soak at the gas station after a hot run and .... click, click,click.

    My car never needed more then five clicks to finally go rrrrrrrrr zoooooom. But this is not a good thing for an ageing heart! My entire starter stopped working a year ago. Had some guys push start me. (These cars are very easy) and had the starter replaced. While it is true that I have NEVER been stranded by this problem I have always known the solution.

    You simply attach the starter key wire to a low voltage intermediate relay that then relays strong voltage current to the solinoid using the full and available power of the big starter cable that is right there on the spot. I was going to build a kit myself if this problem ever happened again.

    Bosche, to its EVERLASTING credit has done it for us. This is the holy grail of hot starter solinoid delay syndrome! You might not know how comforthing this is till one hot day you sit there till the car cools down. The thing is first rate, instructions are simple. Installation is simple if you can get the heat shield off, as described above. My car does not have that shield so thats easy for me to say.

    And it is true. In the last two years and 10,000 miles these solinoid delays, which sometimes persist even with the new starter, have NEVER stopped me. But now I have the fix right in my trunk.
     
  15. Faber

    Faber Formula Junior

    May 5, 2011
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    Tom G.
    Thanks very much - makes loads of sense -
     
  16. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
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    David Lind
    Weren't there some F'Chatters who expressed safety concerns over this type of modification? I will try to fine it and post a link ...
     
  17. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
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    Interesting question. These Bosche units come with fuses, so that is one less issue. In addition these low voltage intermediate solinoids put less strain on the weak wireing then the actual starter solinoid. So that sounds to be even safer. One question is how robust are these Bosche intermediate solinoids? I just do not know.

    My car does not have much of a hot soak starter problem. Once or twice the new starter has had a short delay when I turn the key but has never needed a second turn. However, I am considering installing the unit anyway in order to relieve the old wiring from the task.

    One thing for sure though. If your starter wiring circuit ever degrades to where it will not activate the starter solinoid directly you will really really want one of these devices. My brother-in-law has a Motto Guzzi and weak wiring is also a problem with them. Most riders simply add a similar intermediate solinoid like these. Apparently, sometimes, more then one of them are needed.

    He wants to keep stock. So he repairs the entire wiring system. Thats easier on a Motto Guzzi then the byzyntine wiring in our cars.
     
  18. Karsya Eins

    Karsya Eins Karting

    Jun 17, 2014
    92
    Albany, NY
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    Demostene Romanucci
    Do you still have the part # ?
     
  19. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
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    Apr 25, 2010
    2,706
    Central Florida
  20. gsfent

    gsfent Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2009
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    Jerry
    Good price.

    I mounted mine in the trunk along the back wall with all the other relays. That way, if you need to change out the 15A fuse, it is a piece of cake and everything is protected instead of being exposed to the elements.

    It may call for splicing in some additional wiring, just be cognizant of the gauge of the wire.

    Regards,
    Jerry
     
  21. FamilyCar

    FamilyCar Formula Junior
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    Sep 26, 2007
    503
    Seattle, Wa
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    Peter Goodall
    The safety concern was brought up by Rifledriver if I recall correctly. The issue was that if the relay got wet and shorted it could engage the starter motor, or something along those lines. I installed mine on a threaded stud that is coming out of the subframe along the back of the firewall. It is up pretty high, so my thought was that if it got wet, a lot of other things would be damaged as well. I don't recall a heat shield either, but who knows.
     
  22. srephwed

    srephwed F1 Rookie
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    Apr 29, 2012
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    fred brown
    You can also go to your local John Deere dealer and ask for a relay kit for a 318 lawn tractor. One wire end has to be changed and cost is less than 20 dollars. I used one of these kits to power dual fans and powered them directly to the battery reducing the load on the fragile fuse board. I think I may do the same for the fuel pump.
     
  23. Karsya Eins

    Karsya Eins Karting

    Jun 17, 2014
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    Albany, NY
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    Demostene Romanucci
    #23 Karsya Eins, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
    Thanks, Alden. I saw these. I zoomed in on the instructions. When I googled, right after ebay, the rest of the page was VW sites. I remember how much "non-exotic" was built into these puppies. I was looking for a cross reference/gut check.

    I had a tough time starting last week, then silence, from the starter. Rest of car lighting up, etc., so differntial diagnosis in progress. Maybe I should look at the "bendix," first?
     
  24. gsfent

    gsfent Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2009
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    Jerry
    Somewhere on here is a good DIY on installing the WR1. Also check the 348 section for this.

    Regards,
    Jerry
     
  25. Karsya Eins

    Karsya Eins Karting

    Jun 17, 2014
    92
    Albany, NY
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    Demostene Romanucci
    I have been searching, which side is the starter accessed from, on a euro QV? This is not a chevy, sorry for the noob question. I pulled the driver's side rear wheel and have not figured it ou. i've seen quite a few pictures but too close.
     

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