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430 Spider roof problems

Discussion in '360/430' started by Marcoboxer, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. Marcoboxer

    Marcoboxer Karting

    Oct 5, 2019
    71
    Roswell, GA
    Full Name:
    Mark Roberts
    Does any have the workshop manual for the spider roof? I’m having problems getting the roof to close (open position) under the rear passenger compartment cover. Meaning it won’t slide closed due to the passenger side folding mechanism standing proud. I’m pretty sure the cable holding the roof taught has gone, but before I break out my fixin’ sticks.....I’d like some more details to research. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 25, 2019
    554
    Memphis, TN
    Full Name:
    John
    Since the 360 and 430 Spider tops are identical, you should be able to use a 360 manual.

    Here's a link to every 360 manual I have, including the workshop manual.

    http://www.usnaviguide.com/Ferrari360/
     
  3. Marcoboxer

    Marcoboxer Karting

    Oct 5, 2019
    71
    Roswell, GA
    Full Name:
    Mark Roberts
    Thanks John, there’s plenty of good information about replacing various parts, I didn’t see much on adjustment.

    I guess I need to start looking around in there and see what, if any, adjustments can be made....or what’s bent/broken.
     
    EastMemphis likes this.
  4. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    2,712
    Uk
    There has been a thread about this a month or so in the past
     
  5. Marcoboxer

    Marcoboxer Karting

    Oct 5, 2019
    71
    Roswell, GA
    Full Name:
    Mark Roberts
    Do you have a link? I did a quick search and didn’t come up with anything. And couldn’t find anything specific about adjustment elsewhere online.
     
  6. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    2,712
    Uk
    No, but there are some real experts on here for this problem
     
  7. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 29, 2006
    17,696
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    Post a video showing the problem.
     
  8. Marcoboxer

    Marcoboxer Karting

    Oct 5, 2019
    71
    Roswell, GA
    Full Name:
    Mark Roberts
    I’ll get one done, in the meantime, these two pictures show the issue. You can see where the finish is worn. That’s because it stands proud and the cover tries to close. I included the other side where you can see it’s aligned.
     
  9. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    9,945
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    First, make sure you have full hydraulic fluid.
    Second, shut off the battery for 30 minutes and let the computer re-think by itself.

    Then, turn the battery back on and try again.
     
    Marcoboxer likes this.
  10. Marcoboxer

    Marcoboxer Karting

    Oct 5, 2019
    71
    Roswell, GA
    Full Name:
    Mark Roberts
    I’ll try that, thanks.
     
  11. mello

    mello F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 12, 2013
    3,432
    CA Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Steve
    It could be a stretched cable or microswitch(s) out of adjustments. Difficult to assess through the internet. Based on my personal experience with the 360 Spider, changing out the hydraulic fluid, bleeding the system, lubing all the pivoting joints and cycling the top a few times does wonder. More so when you don't have any records of such maintenance being done in the past.
     
  12. Marcoboxer

    Marcoboxer Karting

    Oct 5, 2019
    71
    Roswell, GA
    Full Name:
    Mark Roberts
    The top opens and closes without any delay, it is just that one point that sits low in the picture (compared to the drivers side) and there sits proud when it folds back into the roof storage compartment. Then the cover cannot slide into place to complete the roof opening procedure. I can see the cover contact at the point where the paint has been rubbed away. Too low in the closed, makes that part too high in the roof open, hence restricting the cover. I cannot open the engine compartment when the roof is in the open position, due to the cover not being fully in place.
     
  13. Marcoboxer

    Marcoboxer Karting

    Oct 5, 2019
    71
    Roswell, GA
    Full Name:
    Mark Roberts
    Quick update. Checked fluid, it’s right on the bullseye....albeit, looks dark to me. It’s hard to video this as I’m on my own, I’ll need to rig something up. I need to channel my inner @spiderscott

    when looking closely at the roof mechanism, there are locating pins for the front part of the roof assembly. The one on the side in question looks bent, although hard to see how that would be the cause....more likely a symptom. Pictures attached should show the good one and the slightly deformed one. There does appear to be an adjustment bolt, I don’t want to mess with it until I’ve figured out why this is happening. I’ve also included under the roof compartment where the part is rubbing (that is what’s preventing the closure), pic of the bullseye with fluid and should be two pics of left right pins. It’s only slightly deformed. I’m assuming because of the hydraulics, there’s considerable force involved that could easily bend that pin.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. Marcoboxer

    Marcoboxer Karting

    Oct 5, 2019
    71
    Roswell, GA
    Full Name:
    Mark Roberts
    And if I didn’t say so before, thanks for all the suggestions so far.
     
  15. 1949live

    1949live Karting

    Sep 18, 2014
    75
    Denver, Colorado
    Full Name:
    David
    From my experience with what sounds like the same problem, it was old over stretched elastic that is supposed to hold up the center bar while the roof is folding. Here is a link to the details:

    https://aldousvoice.com/2013/08/25/ferrari-360-spider-roof-problems/

    I haven't fixed my elastics yet - due to do so in two weeks - but when i manually pushed up the roof bar while the top was stopped in the upright position, it did then close properly. Easy to try to see if this is your issue. Let us know.
     
  16. Marcoboxer

    Marcoboxer Karting

    Oct 5, 2019
    71
    Roswell, GA
    Full Name:
    Mark Roberts
    1949Live, you are on to something. The reason the cover wouldn’t close is due to the roof being somewhat loose and excess fabric blocking the sliding locking mechanisms. I’m still not sure about the actual roof mechanism, but it seem to be a different issue at this point. I guess I need a new roof (which I do) and fresh elastic to pull everything into place.
     
  17. 1949live

    1949live Karting

    Sep 18, 2014
    75
    Denver, Colorado
    Full Name:
    David
    As i mentioned, try manually stopping the roof when it is pointed up, push the bar up, and then see if it will close.
     
  18. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,642
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Fifth picture down:the roof assembly is cracked.
     
  19. Marcoboxer

    Marcoboxer Karting

    Oct 5, 2019
    71
    Roswell, GA
    Full Name:
    Mark Roberts
    I noticed that after I posted. I think I’ve got two issues. The first is the roof fabric is just sloppy. Probably the infamous elastic problem, gathering all the material allows the cover to close properly. The second issue is the crackEd part....the front part of the frame and what caused that.
     
  20. Marcoboxer

    Marcoboxer Karting

    Oct 5, 2019
    71
    Roswell, GA
    Full Name:
    Mark Roberts
    Question: does anyone have any experience replacing that part? I’m probably into a roof replacement discussion at this point, anyone have guidance on how to best approach that? I’m sure it’s an $8k discussion with the dealer.
     
  21. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 29, 2006
    17,696
    Twin Cities
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    Tim Keseluk
    To replace the entire top? $8K isn't even close. Back off and take a few more pictures so I can see which part is cracked.
     
  22. Marcoboxer

    Marcoboxer Karting

    Oct 5, 2019
    71
    Roswell, GA
    Full Name:
    Mark Roberts
    2NA likes this.
  23. Marcoboxer

    Marcoboxer Karting

    Oct 5, 2019
    71
    Roswell, GA
    Full Name:
    Mark Roberts
    Ugh! pictures rotated......sorry about that. #1, 2 & 4 should rotate 90 deg clockwise. #3 should be 180 deg.
     
  24. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 29, 2006
    17,696
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    #24 2NA, Mar 24, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
    Look carefully, is it actually a crack? Here's a picture of the same part. There is a casting mark in the same place. Unfortunately the part frequently breaks and is not typically available separately. The one I have broke at the pivot when the client's top failed to latch properly and inadvertently opened at 80 mph.
    If yours is broken, it is possible to remove it and weld the crack although it's not an easy job.

    As far as the cost to replace the entire top goes, My client's insurance company spent $36,000 on his adventure. The hardest part was locating a NOS top for an 18 year old car.




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  25. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,642
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I think what has happened here may be a mix of things: mainly the elastic straps being weak, but potentially some joints that need lubrication, a weakened ram, and/or cables that require adjustment. The roof is complicated and once a few areas become tight, loose, or out of adjustment then it tends to have an additive effect and place stress on the frame.

    The cracked part could be repaired by cutting the crack and welding but it would be imperative that the heat didn't affect the part's dimensions.

    Is there a local expert whom you can use to health check the entire roof?
     

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