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SOMETHING HAPPENING?

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by jimzdancewicz, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. jimzdancewicz

    jimzdancewicz Karting

    Mar 1, 2015
    150
    Berwyn, PA
    Full Name:
    James Zdancewicz
    Hello All, first post here in a while. I check regularly on eBay and I am seeing a lot of Mondials, Especially t's for sale in the 50-75k asking range. Is there something FINALLY starting to happen in the collectors market for these notoriously under-appreciated gems?
     
  2. alexion

    alexion Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 20, 2013
    849
    New York
    Hi Jim - Yes, asking prices have gone up considerably. I'm not sure these asking prices are justified, though I made a comment about it the other day in the "for sale" thread. I believe what happened is, Merlin Auto Group has been asking $70's for a couple of really nice cars for quite some time. Clearly those cars haven't sold, though that hasn't stopped other sellers from "taking a shot." My comment was to the effect of, if one sells, maybe the rest will. Until then, I think these are pie in the sky prices.

    Do I think Mondial are deserving of $70's, yes, I do. They are awesome cars, though I don't think we're there yet.
     
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  3. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
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    Jan 21, 2002
    5,762
    Stepford, Connecticut
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    dave m
    Since being on this site have seen Daytona's sell in the low $100's, 246 Dino's in the 40k, Ghibli i could have bought for 27k (should have bought it!!) My 74 Dino 308Gt/4 euro i bought for 20k. My friend who used to post here was moving in 2005 wanted me to buy his 91 Tr in immaculate shape for 53k. I could go on an on....but i might depress myself!

    So who is to say?
     
  4. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
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    Nov 1, 2005
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    Toronto, Canada
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    Andy
    I think we are just seeing inflation more generally doing its deed, purchasing power is declining, so at least the Mondial's bottomed out in real terms and are now pacing inflation. Not much downside, and might encourage the deferred maintenance crowd to spruce a few driver level cars up and get some payback.
     
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  5. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie
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    May 25, 2013
    3,703
    The Netherlands - NH
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    Tijn
    #5 MvT, Mar 1, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
    In all honesty I do not really care if the price went up or down since I am not selling it anyway. Why finally? Insurance wise it is not in our best interest if our rides go up in value as your yearly fee, at least here, will go up. My insurance has been 50% more expensive the last 3 years. Also parts will automatically raise in price too and some ridicules amount for certain parts.

    Anyway just venting some thoughts :)
     
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  6. srephwed

    srephwed F1 Rookie
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    Apr 29, 2012
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    street,md
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    fred brown
    I think you start high. It's easy to come down then.
     
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  7. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    I agree with MvT, high values just push up the running costs. I personally think that as electric cars come in and gas stations selling gas get harder to find these cars will become less desirable to a new generation. It will be interesting to see how this affects future values if running an old Ferrari became as appealing as running an old steam car.
     
  8. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
    2,973
    USA
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    Dave
    I think the more telling price indicator is that in the US (where Mondial's have always been the cheapest to buy, compared to prices in the EU for example), it's pretty tough to find a decent car these days for under $35k...and that applies to all versions, not just the t.

    Of course, people will sell them here on Fchat to other enthusiasts for less money from time to time, just to know their car is going to someone who will appreciate it. And there's always one in need of life support for $20k at BHCC or the like, but in general they are moving up. But to me this is more about used Ferrari's hitting more of an equilibrium overall. It makes sense for the Mondial to increase in value, because they have been bottomed out for a long time. On the other hand, we're seeing virtually every other used Ferrari model drop in price. Almost every 365 car has dropped. QM's and C/4"s were going for around $350k not too long ago, now they're both closer to the $200-250k mark again, respectively (and often sitting for a while unsold). Daytona's were near a million for a while, now you see nice examples in the $600k range. 360's, 430's, 458's...all seem to be getting less expensive albeit at different paces and to different degrees. And of course, the Mondial's closest relatives, the 308 GT/4 and the 308 GTS/GTB are both going for less than they were a few years ago.

    Basically, I think that car people are starting to realise the Mondial was a undervalued as a driver, and it's 80's looks are starting to look cooler to people..representative of an overall period of car design. At the same time the fever that ran through the Ferrari market in general has cooled. So the gap will narrow a bit but I don't think the Mondial is going to be shocking anyone in terms of value gains anytime soon.

    And yes, it will be interesting to see what happens to ALL of these cars in 30 years, if electric becomes the majority and ICE cars become specialty items...and if gas is $20 a gallon and the only remaining mechanics who service old internal combustion engine Ferrari's are charging "250 GTO investment car" rates, where mechanics who work on them become more like art conservators. Of course, I think it will take a lot longer than that to get rid of gas powered cars from the roads (even NPR thinks it's more like 50+ years before that begins to happen in earnest), but electric is the wave of the future, for better or worse.

    But at the end of the day who cares. Let's smoke em while we've got em. :)

    Oh..PS...I love the car, and I love driving the least expensive Ferrari on the road. It makes me feel like an enthusiast and not like the gross guy trying to compensate for "something" by driving the shiny new Ferrari. And I also love paying only $150/month for insurance!
     
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  9. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Jul 1, 2013
    6,958
    Menlo Park, CA
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    Paul Chua
    I agree with this post 100% .
     
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  10. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
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    Nov 1, 2005
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    Andy
    Electric cars, and self driving cars are glaring examples of capital misallocation, and why deferring recessions through monetary stimulus just makes these excesses more dramatic.

    Fossil fuels for transport in all climate conditions makes perfect sense, and if technology keeps advancing, they still have a lot of efficiency (and weight reduction) improvements to come (eg. the new variable compression engine by Infiniti is just one new example). If everyone does indeed go electric, then you best get used to lots of new nuclear plants, and a lot more wiring into homes and residences to handle the loads. The battery waste will be epic, and no doubt worse for the environment in total energy and pollution costs from manufacture to disposal all being downplayed.

    As for self driving, directionally refining some automatic braking and that type of collision avoidance safety is where it will end. Even if they could figure out how to not randomly kill people with software that envisions everything all the time, teenagers will be car surfing, miscreants will sabotage the vehicles, and other non automated drivers will cut every car off to gain a commuting advantage. The tech people don't understand human behaviour, and the brilliance of human operators in times of random surprises.

    All that to say, that old Ferraris and Mondials in particular will continue to provide the thrill of driver engagement while driving artwork just for the joy of it. Even today, there remain a whole bunch of horse enthusiasts, long after they were no longer used for transporation. Ferrari's badges do still include an obsolete horse on it...maybe they will replace it with a Unicorn with a lighting bolt shooting out of its eyes for its electric enhanced supercars.
     
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  11. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
    2,973
    USA
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    Dave
    Agree completely.

    Also, not to hijack the thread and send it into a discussion about electric, but you're 100% spot on about electric cars. As it stands I think they'll do more harm than good on a mass production level as it relates ot the environment. The battery issue alone is huge. Sadly the population as a whole is easily manipulated, and they're being told that's the right answer to an environmental problem that fairly speaking does need addressing. I just think electric is a big mistake until the power issue gets way more resolved.

    What I don't get is why hybrid cars aren't seen as the right answer. To me they certainly are. It's an existing technology that if implemented on the same universal scale as electric cars want to be, could do a massive amount of good with no new or unforeseen downsides to worry about. Alas, they seem to be seen now as a stop gap until electric can "take over" which seems foolish to me. C'est la vie.
     

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