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someone explain 246 dino price logic

Discussion in '206/246' started by Newman, Sep 4, 2007.

  1. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    I was just reading about dino 246 prices, asking $250K for a show winning GTS, will they get it? TR prices are in the dumps, boxers are half the price of a daytona. To me looks and performance go hand in hand. If a car cant pull a sick whore off a toilet then it aint worth much regardless of the name on the car. A 246 isnt fast or exciting unless in a turn but its pretty, a 308 is faster and pretty in a different way and underpriced. A daytona is pretty and fast and old and a 12 so I can see the price point but not on a 246. Ill never understand why someone would pay rediculous money for one. If I was a 246 owner I would be very pleased and probably dump it asap to cash in because I dont see the value. Is it a case of people jumping on a band wagon like the muscle car farce on B-J? Whats the fuss about? Im not trying to slam the car, just trying to understand the reasoning behind the frenzy because I'm missing something here.
     
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  3. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    As cars age, aesthetics take priority, and the 246 GTS is one smoking hot little two-seater Ferrari with 1960s charm. $250K is probably lunatic fringe pricing for guys who polish their dipstick, but $150K-$200K seems about right. Remember the much commoner and slower Porsche Speedster is easily $200K now, and that it is a car that can't get out of its own way. It's an icon, though.

    I agree that good 308s are underpriced. They are stupidly cheap, and good 328s are also a raging bargain right now for what Sheehan and others have called the best V8 Ferrari ever made. These are also iconic cars.
     
  4. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2006
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    in my opinion, Ferraris tend to live and die by their styling, not their performance benchmarks.

    rarity is absolutely a factor as well, but styling is probably on the very top level of factors. some Ferraris' styling becomes hip or en vogue later (time tends to make beautiful cars more beautiful), drops out of favor and then returns into favor, or is iconic permanently. the popularity then rises accordingly.

    as well, in my opinion, the stigma of the "little Ferrari" is no longer keeping Dino values suppressed; it is actually making Dinos a novelty act of growing expense. the Dino is rich with history and intrigue, being a pivotal moment for Ferrari as a company. that mythology may play into the values.

    even the lowly Fiat Dinos are rising in value, having doubled in only under 2 years; in some cases within the same year, undoubtedly a consequence of the 246s values. Dino is a hot name right now. the 206/246 body style, along with the Dino moniker as historical footnote, has met it's time to shine.
     
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  5. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Yea, it does seem surprising. The design queues are rather timeless and even look to be picked up on more modern F's. Other models remain stuck in an "affordable F-car" category. I guess the question is, what's the next Dino 246? It's interesting what shifts a car into the "sought after/collector/high dollar" category.
     
  6. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    i am in italy currently, and just left maranello today. i have an afliction for dinos that cant be explained. as of yesterday, there is a dino in the museum next to a 275gtb. the dinos roof line is at the level of the bottom edge of the 275. dinos are fun cars and handle great. they have long been considered to be non-ferraris.

    my opion is biased since i love these cars. but given the time frame, try to find another ferrari that can compete. sure, there is the daytona, but they are very different cars. the dino is a blast to drive and is easy to drive.

    when 430s and 599s started trading at well over $100k over sticker, you have to ask is the dino and boxer really that worthless. my answer would be no. i think the over sticker phenonmenon drives prices more tha anything else. there is no sight of that changing
     
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  8. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    I agree with this to some degree - but there are certainly exceptions: Some of those early 50s models were as ugly and weird as anything Detroit ever made, but are well up there in six or more figures. Also, you could make the point that the new models go more for the name and the perceived performance rather than the styling.

    To think I missed getting one of these twice - once in 1972 when they were new (at about 12K, or a 3K trade up from my 1972 911).

    And again two years ago when I was looking for my first Ferrari - it was actually kind of an entry level car back then at 65K. However, that was still as much or more than a Testarossa, which was the direction I ended up going.

    Off subject, but another shocker to me is how those lowly Lancia RWD convertibles have suddenly become 125K/150K cars - who would have predicted that one?
     
  9. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
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    I think one of the major influences on certain Ferrari model price increases is the limited number of cars advertised for sale at one time. 246 GTS cars and Daytona Coupes typically have fewer than 10 or so advertisements of decent cars readily available throughout the country. These ads are in outlets such as FML, Hemmings, Dupont Registry, etc. So, when one dealer sets their price a little bit higher, everyone else gives it a try too. 246 GTS cars went from $125k to $150k to $175k to $195k relatively quickly.

    The other half of this swelling bubble of prices is that there are a handful of buyers willing to pay the rising prices along the way. Ironically, it is the rising prices themselves that attract some of these buyers to the feeding frenzy.

    There are just too many 308's and 328's for sale at one point in time for these cars to mimic the same cycle. There is always one renigade who is happy to get only $40k for his nice 308 that ruins the whole launching of the price bubble.

    What finally bursts these pricing bubbles is some external event that gets everyone in the marketplace thinking that "maybe spending $200k or more on a 35+ year old 2.4 liter 6-cyl car may not be the best move financially at this time". So, it will take a drop in housing, stock market, a rise in unemployment, etc. to break the cycle of the current pricing bubble.

    Are the 246 GTS cars worth their current asking prices? Yes, if you really want to own and drive the car over the next ten years. In that situation, whether the car continues to rise in price, or drops a bit, is secondary to its joy of ownership.
     
  10. bushwhacker

    bushwhacker In Memoriam

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    Look at the price increases in just the last two years, you could pick up a good example for 55-65K, not great but good. Some of the Ferrari sale sites still have them listed as sold, but you can look at the examples, dates for sale and prices. Personally. I'm surprised they haven't gone up before now. A wonderful example in styling and one of the most beautiful Ferrari's or cars ever designed. A true piece of art.
     
  11. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

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    The thing about Dinos is they are just so darn cute!

    Dave
     
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  13. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

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    yes, indeed good points.

    yet please consider this part of my post as well:
    "rarity is absolutely a factor as well, but styling is probably on the very top level of factors."

    most of those 1950s cars number only in 50 or 200 units built for a series. or much less. that alone will up the value of a Ferrari regardless of how it looks. look at the value of a 1947 166 Spyder Corsa numbering in 8 units built. yet the 166 is seldom ever seen in popular Ferrari culture; is more of an asset/collectible/commodity. i guess it looks ok for what it is, but cannot compare to the looks of a 250 SWB or F40 or other pop culture icons.

    they only made about 2600 Dino 246 coupes. indeed more than a "non-production" series made from the 1940s and 1950s, but much less than the Dino-derivative 3x8 series. so, in my opinion as a layperson, the Dino enjoys both relatively small numbers made + styling, while having overcome the stigma of being inferior, lesser, bogus, cheap, otherwise objectionable. it has seasoned well like a fine wine.

    for sh1ts and grins, pay some attention to the Fiat Dino market. that is on fire as well, with rises in value nearly proportional to the Ferrari Dinos (albeit at lesser baseline values, many Fiat Dinos have experienced unprecedented spikes in value in very short time frames).
     
  14. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jon I love you and I love your car. and I agree the 3x8 prices are too cheap.

    But the F40 was the most desirable Ferrari V8 ever made IMVHO with all due respect to Sheehan.

    I would rather have a 360 spider than a 246 GTS for the same money even though the 360 will depreciate and the dino will proably appreciate. Could have bot a Dino for around $100k but instead got a 360 at MSRP. to each his own.
     
  15. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Best regular production V8 - my bad!
     
  16. Rory J

    Rory J Formula Junior
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    I think the term was "best," not "most desireable". I would assume that there are other factors involved in that decision than pure driving excitement (such as ease of maintainance, driveability, practicality, etc). I believe that the 328 is essentially the last V8 Ferrari that an owner could reasonably stand to do virtually all routine repair work on him/herself.
     
  17. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    #14 dm_n_stuff, Sep 4, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Supply and demand, pure and simple.

    The Dino, is without question a fantastic driving car, can more or less stay with a 308 straight line, (believe me, I've done it) and toast it in the corners. It has beautiful lines, and is in very tight supply.

    The guys who have great ones aren't letting them go. The guys who have ratty ones are getting great money for them, because there just aren't a lot of great ones around. The really great ones (how many can there be?) will command increasingly higher prices as they dribble onto the market.

    I paid $40K for my car less than 5 years ago, and it was barely running, with a shoddy interior, adequate paint and a solid gearbox and frame. $40K later (maybe more like $60K, I'm afraid to add it up) the car is worth north of $150K. US GT, chairs car, 97 point concours car, and sure it's for sale, but only if someone offers me well over the $150K point.

    I passed on a ratty GTS about 18 months ago at $85K, (needed $45-50k in work) what the hell was I thinking? I was thinking they had topped out. Boy was I wrong. Saw a needy GT sell for $80K+ a couple months ago.

    Drive one. It'll change your mind about values.

    Dave M.
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  18. lotustt

    lotustt Formula 3

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    Could someone about 6'2 or '3 fit in the non gts version?
     
  19. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    My 6'5" brother in law (probably 275lbs) fit in mine, and took it for a spirited drive, but he's used to squeezing into little cars as he's a Brit car nut.

    My 6'3" son rides shotgun with me, but his knees are a bit scrunched up.


    Dave M
     
  20. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    LOVE that drawing from Carsten!!!
     
  21. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    I have plenty more, available on www.fchatstuff.com :D

    Dave M
     
  22. 355

    355 F1 Rookie
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    This price thing with the dino has happened before. In around 1985 you could grab a 246 Dino for about $35000 or less. By 1988 they were going well over $225,000 and then CRASH! Down they came and nobody wanted them....Its all about the money. Those who truly love the car dont care where the price is as they own one and wont sell. I could have bought one a year ago for $65,000 Canadian but had no desire for it. Its a beatiful car but not my style. I will bet that in 5 years you will see them back around $100,000.
     
  23. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    At that time the entire market in collector Ferraris ran up and ran down due to investors and speculators buying in, and then bailing out of the market.

    That's not the case this time.

    If you're thinking hold out, prices will drop by 50% or more, then I feel there's going to be a very long wait indeed.

    DM
     
  24. Flash G

    Flash G Three Time F1 World Champ
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    If only you could hop in a time machine...

    https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ferrari/246gts/2429568.html
     
  25. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    Around late 1996/early 1997, there was a yellow Dino GTS that sat for sale for some time here in Houston.

    Ad ran in the Houston Chronicle as a “Ferrari Bino” and the ASK was $35k.

    It was a reasonable Driver, but had lots of needs, although it is full books/records/tools (where I learned what these looked like).

    I believe it sold for around $30k at that time.

    Shawn
     
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  26. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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  27. Jamie H

    Jamie H Formula 3
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    The market will do what it’s gonna do. I continue to drive mine and improve it over time.
     
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  28. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    When you figure this out, Newman, please explain the prices of Bitcoin and TSLA to me ;)
     
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