Should Testarossa's really be so cheap? | FerrariChat

Should Testarossa's really be so cheap?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by F1Ace, Jul 8, 2004.

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  1. F1Ace

    F1Ace F1 Rookie

    Mar 15, 2004
    2,980
    Full Name:
    Wes
    I read an article some time ago with great interest because it attempted to explain why the TR prices fall so fast. I thought they made some good points such as:
    1-Lack of spare/used parts
    2-Premature wear on the leather
    3-Expensive service costs
    4-Expensive parts (Diff-$15g, Tranny-$25g, etc.)
    5-Fragile (for lack of a better word) early cars (wheel spinners, etc.)

    Many of you own TR's, is this paranoia justified? I mean, one must fuss with any F-car, is owning a TR such a big fear anymore to the informed? I like to say there are two ways to own an exotic car, one is with lots of money, the other is with lots of knowledge. Can knowledge make TR ownership rather manageable?

    I suppose another reason why the values are low is the lack of storage space. How do you guys daily drive these TR's with there being no trunk? That must deter sales as well.

    Comments?

    Best!
    Wes
     
  2. lukek

    lukek Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 2, 2003
    2,074
    San Francisco
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    LK
    I think the slide has stopped. 1-2 years ago, you could spot them in the 40s, and low 50s. Maybe it is the summer, but I cannot see any advertised for less than 55, anymore. Even 85s and 86s.

    thx
    luke
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,157
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    I'm usually not hauling anything large around with me so the limited trunk space doesn't really deter/affect my daily use. I even wish they would have not included the storage space behind the seats so that they could've shortened/lightened the car plus given room to move the engine more forward a bit (and still provide better access to the front of the engine than there currently is) -- but they didn't ask me ;).

    I don't think any of those criticisms are grossly unfair, and if you buy a (now 14-20 year old) TR you've got to anticipate having some future problems and assuming some risk that you could have a big$ problem. If you can do some of your own fiddling this certainly helps keep the costs down (but IMO you'd need to invest in getting an OM, SPC, WSM, and wiring diagram), and you've got to keep your guard up if you're paying someone else to do the servicing -- did you see the $250 quote for a single (conventional) headlight replacement thread? Parts cost are high-ish (even from the best-priced sources), and the architecture (essentially 2 x 6-cyl engines sharing a common crankshaft) makes for a lot of parts.

    I wouldn't say that TRs are that wrongly-priced compared to present 512TR or 550 values, and, in a way, the overall $ risk isn't that great (IMO -- a complete, unwrinkled TR with a blown diff or other serious problem would still bring ~$20K or maybe a little more from the salvage folks).

    And there are some positives too...;)
     
  4. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,789
    CA
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    Jerry
    Not sure about the criticism on the lack of trunk space - I seem to have the same amount of space as my 328. The TR's front trunk is pretty good sized.

    I haven't experienced the repair pain yet - Only been an owner for a few months. When I was at my mechanic's shop, a red TR was towed in that was smoking worse that I have ever seen a car smoke. I thought the repair bill was going to be insane. When I went back to the mechanic's shop a few weeks later the this red TR was just getting finished. My mechanic said he fixed the problem & performed a much needed major. The cost was just under $8k. I didn't think that was too bad at all considering what I saw when he started the car when it just got off the tow truck!
     
  5. F1Ace

    F1Ace F1 Rookie

    Mar 15, 2004
    2,980
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    Wes
    I agree, $8g isn't "that bad", I know of a 944 which "interfered" with itself and his bill (OK, this is cheap Canadian money here) was $7g, and for a 944?

    Once again, had the TR owner kept up on his maintenance..........

    I gotta revisit that space behind the seats again, I didn't know it amounted to much.

    Wes
     
  6. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,789
    CA
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    Jerry
    I was really surprised at the bill - The smoke was crazy. The mechanic did say he was urging the guy to do a major for the past year, so......

    The space behind the seats isn't too much, but it is enough to fit the suitcases of the Luggage that is intended to go back there, so there is some space there. I just usually throw stuff into the front trunk - Plenty of space for me there.
     
  7. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
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    All myth....my 86 never disappoints. I would suspect that the reason why many bash it is because they are unaware of what they are getting themselves into. No different than buying a house you can barely afford, and then the property taxes come in. Any and all ferraris is expensive to maintain, the TR, IMO a touch more....but its so much more of a car also. I stand by the old saying, dont buy what you cant afford !!
     
  8. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
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    HUBBSTER
    probably not as they are art on wheels. I think the body is easily 1 of the finest looking cars of the 20th C

    Positive-
    Beautiful
    stops traffic
    great attention getter
    timeless design
    great sound
    good power

    Negatives-
    so so brakes
    weak transmissions
    expensive parts
    tough to work on

    Still, I love them, I have 2 :)
     
  9. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    I have had my 88.5 TR now for 6 years, put 35K miles on it (has about 63k total), and have not had the many problems mentioned.

    The PO had the diff replaced with that of the 512 TR (much stronger).......of course, he tracked the car some.

    The following where the things I did: Replaced the mother fuse board.......about $700........common problem; Had one caliper rebuilt, with SS pistons........$350; Replaced the thro-out bearing.......about $250. I have had no problem with warped dash, inferior brakes (as long as one doesn't race the car, as William H does), or clutch......same one since I bought it.

    I am just completing my own major service on the car. The cost includes 2 belts, and valve cover gaskets.........total about $250. The thermostats where about $100. Changing fluids will cost another $100, let's say. Now add another $50 for the proper shims to adjust the valves, and $100 to replace the seals in the water pump, and I just don't know where the dealers are coming up with $8500 for the major service.

    When I am done, I will consider selling the car, however, I will avoid those buyers that can't do their own service.........they will moan and groan at the service expense..........and, I will just tell them to look elsewhere!!!!!!!!

    I can't help but feel that this is occurring to other Ferraris as well. It is the potential SERVICE cost that kills a deal. The newer cars are even worse, since much of the analysis of engine, etc., problems require computer programs, which you and I don't have access to.........ONLY the dealer........just like Ferrari wants it!!!!!!!!! No thanks!!!
     
  10. chinaboy

    chinaboy Karting

    Jan 26, 2004
    122
    Jardine Lookout, HK
    Full Name:
    Eric Wong
    I think the value of the TR has gone up alot now...because it becomes the list of true classic..
    at least, the 2nd hand price has gone up 20% in Hong Kong this year.
    the salesman says it is hard to find anyone who is willing to sell it here...
    everyone keeps the car as part of collection
     
  11. steve f

    steve f F1 World Champ

    Mar 15, 2004
    12,119
    12cylinder town
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    steve
    i have had 2 testarossa i have gone all the way now and bought a f512m which will not lose any money as they are so rare my opinion is to be a ferrari you should have 12 cylinders with the engine behind you
     
  12. Rene

    Rene Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 5, 2004
    2,156
    London
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    René
    I've had my 87 TR for exactly a year and added 10,000 miles to the 19,000+ it came with. I have driven it in gridlocked traffic in pelting rain; for hours on end in heavily congested motorway traffic in Europe, with outside tempeartures of 104 Farenheit; and in 32 degree country roads in eastern England during winter. The car worked without a hitch, despite odd noises from engine and chassis.

    I agree that the brakes are so-so, and the aircon is noisy. Nevertheless, the car is reliable -provided that it is regularly serviced. Servicing is expensive, alas, very expensive so if you can do any of it yourself (which I can't), you'll be saving yourself a lot.

    Since so many TRs were built, it's hard to see them retaining value in the same was as the rarer later models,the 512's, but they can be enjoyed as classic, classic Ferraris: wonderful, iconic design, beautiful mid-engined grand tourers with endless mid-range power.

    I have driven the car at an indicated 140mph on the motorway and found the car less noisy, which was unexpected, than the Mondial it replaced and less noisy than my late-model 6-litre Jaguar XJS at that speed. Then engine has a standard exhaust, which helps, but mostly the shape seems to contribute to an acceptable measure of wind noise. The car was rock-steady at high speed and some time I shall try for 160+ for comparison.
     
  13. F1Ace

    F1Ace F1 Rookie

    Mar 15, 2004
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    Wes
    THAT DOES IT....I'M BUYING ONE!!!!

    (OK, maybe not just right away...)

    I have to agree about the excellent style of the car. When it came out I just fell in love with it immediately...unlike some current Ferrari's.... To think they derided the slats on the side? They must have been "brain dead" to not see the beauty of this design. I agree, best in decades!

    Bravo to y'all who are doing your own work, but I probably wouldn't. I don't mind paying a bit more to have someone to blame things on. There are a couple of non-dealership shops here who are nice to work with. But WOW, you who do-it-youself sure get away cheap! Bravo! Actually I don't mind spending $5g a year on maintenance...I do on my Jag! And what's that? OK it's better now, but TR's are worth the trouble, just not $15g a year, which they're not costing anyway.

    I (recently) got the 328 and am quite pleased with my choice. I don't want something too stand-out-ish and it's pretty good that way, but I have to admit, for black, people notice it! I think I'd like a black TR next. Mmmmmmm.

    You guys who live in summer climes don't know how good you've got it. You tie up tons of money into the cars alright, but at least you can use them all year around! I can only use mine from May to September, then it goes into storage all winter. That's a lot of money for a 5 month car. Speaking of which...anyone wanna rent it for the winter?

    Best!
    Wes
     
  14. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
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    To date as an FYI : My TR over 5 yrs has cost 3k a year, whuc includes, clutch, and belts and fluids. My next belt change (coming in a yr or two) will run about 5k and Im off to the races again. Yes its in CDN funds. Not sure where this big misunderstanding of 15k a yr to operate a TR comes from?And I do no work on it my own.Just find a great buddy mechanic...lots out there willing to help.
     

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