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Schumacher worked harder, Hamilton has more talent - Massa

Discussion in 'F1' started by cmos, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    You are right, but Hamilton detractors will never accept that!

    I would also add that in Schumacher's time, testing was unlimited, giving a huge advantage to teams that could afford it (Fiorano for example).
     
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  3. Problème is every post is like a broken records from BOTH sides Ktu, u and the ms boys on the other side. U all using precious time out of ur lives


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  4. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    I have no problem accepting the results of a race, or a championship, regardless who wins.
    But some people only want their team or their driver to win, and won't accept the results that don't suit them.
     
  5. I mean just seeing that now 18 years old drive those cars like video games makes me think some aspects of driving is easier


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  6. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    Exactly...remember the days when Senna had to be lifted out of his car? When Mansell almost collapsed on the podium? (OK, OK, Old Nige could be "slightly theatrical" indeed sometimes, but the guy had balls: he pushed his Lotus in Dallas in 1984 under blazing heat...now they get out of the car at the end fresh like a young flower...I'm no bully or macho, but no-one would have me believe that they work very hard. Come on!

    Rgds
     
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  8. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    Agree. Some here are passionate about belittling Hamilton's achievements, so Hamilton fans are passionate about proving them wrong. But hey this place wouldn't be as fun if we didn't have both sides ! lol
     
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  9. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    Today it is undeniably easier to drive those cars--the sport has taken all of the life threatening danger out of racing!

    Back in the old days, drivers obeyed track limits because they did not want to die! now they don't even bother to try to obey track limits.
    Back in the old days it 2 cars touched tire to tire, there was a good chance both drivers would die. This gave the drivers incentive to "drive nice".

    I have watched NASCAR descend into demo-derby status and F1 follows not far behind--because the cars are so safe and durable the drivers have incentive to push others off the road rather than developing the talent to actually pass another car.
     
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  10. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    Hilarious and naive in equal measure !

    Jim Clark and Fangio have less wins. By your logic Hamilton is "better" than both.

    £600 million annual budget in order to manage tyres and not race flat out.

    Hybrid era = progress :D
     
  11. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    You mean Mercedes achievements !
    Remarkable car.

    Did you know that Mercedes were going to hire Hulkenberg if Lewis didn't join ?
    Their car is a monster and Rosberg and Hulkenberg would both deliver.
     
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  13. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    2009 up until Germany proves it.
     
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  14. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    Lol! Its funny you want to judge a driver by a few months of his career. I'll play along.

    What happen to Schumacher in 2005? He could not win 1 fair race, and was no threat to the championship. Do you judge his whole career off of 2005?
     
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  15. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    But why do you insist on denying the talent of Hamilton who drove that car?

    Why do you keep attacking the man, and inventing hypothetical scenarios to dismiss his achievements?

    Mercedes DIDN'T hire Hulkenberg, so there is no story there!
     
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  16. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    Have you forgotten that the FIA suddenly changed tyre regulations in the winter of 2004, in order to suit Michelin for 2005 ?
    The audience was getting tired of Schumacher's dominance and the FIA reacted.

    Worth listening to Ross Brawn's podcasts for the facts
     
  17. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    Hamilton has delivered in the most dominant car in F1 history.
    So has Rosberg.
    I also have no doubt that Mercedes knew what they were doing with their option on Hulkenberg.
    As it happens Hamilton decided to jump ship. Good decision. Well done.
     
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  18. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    A driver can only perform in the car of his era.
    Some people say today's cars are easier to drive than cars of yesterday; in their eyes, the champions of today are less deserving than Fangio, or Clark.
    That's the accusations made by Hamilton detractors who pretend that Schumacher was a better driver because he worked harder.
    If that's true, Schumacher himself had it easy compared to Lauda or Stewart. Where do we go with that theory?
    By that logic, tomorrow's cars will be even easier, and the drivers input less in the success.
    What's the point then of perpetuating a sport, if the driver's talent will be diminishing?
    In a sport like athleticism, you see the human performance improving over the years: the 100-meter record is a good example.
    Maybe F1 will stop being a sport, and be considered an engineering contest?
    How long before we dispense with the driver?
     
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  19. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    Yes you are saying Schumacher couldn't win when he no longer had the best car. That was my point. At least Hamilton was able to win fairly in 2009 in a bad car. These events show why Schumacher's team mates may say Hamilton had more talent.
     
  20. 375+

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    It became an engineering contest with the hybrid formula.
     
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  21. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    Possibly the most untrue statement of the day. If Jim Clarks engineer studied Schumacher's Ferrari, his head would explode.
     
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  22. Jim Moscardini

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    I'm a numbers kinda guy. In the seven championships by Schumacher only twice did his teammate come in second in the driver's standings. Has any other team's driver come in second to Hamilton since Mercedes' rise to power? I'm not sure. Maybe once (Vettell?). That's a little too coincidental for me. Did Mercedes just "happen" to nab the #1, #2 & #3 drivers in all of F1 right out of the box? That's pretty unlikely. More coincidence?

    I'm not going to diss the Drivers' comparisons of the two, and there's no doubt that Hamilton is a talented driver. But simple statistics I listed above seem to clearly imply that while the Mercedes has made Hamilton a Champion, Schumacher made the Ferrari a champion.

    I also believe that in his prime, Alonso could have trounced Hamilton. So sad to see his best years wasted at a floundering McClaren.
     
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  23. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3


    And yet the Ferrari was not a true contender until 2001.
    Even in 2000 it was a straight fight against the faster McLaren and Mika.

    Shows us just how difficult it was to turn Ferrari around, even with the "Mighty Schumacher" .

    Murray Walkers words not mine.
     
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  24. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    It's not only the power unit that made the difference.
    It's all the drivers aids that were added over the years, the on-board telemetry, the various electronic systems, the pitwall instructions, the computer-aided strategy, the amount of sensors on the cars, etc...
    I would say the radio communications took a lot of decisions from the driver; years ago, the driver was alone in planning his race, deciding his strategy, etc ...
     
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  25. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    Bottas finished 3rd and 5th 2017&18. Hekki finished 7th when Hamilton won championship in 08. Google Alonso's list top 5 drivers of all time, you will see that Alonso has already placed Hamilton above himself.
     
  26. sammysaber

    sammysaber Formula Junior
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  27. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    Lauda and Stewart both are worthy of praise in GOAT, neither are in the top 10 for GOAT.
    1968 was the first time the 100 meter dash was completed in less than 10 seconds
    the current world record is 9.58 seconds--an improvement of only 4.2%
    F1 was an engineering contest its entire duration.
    Fans wanted to root for a driver.
    it will be a while yet.
     
  28. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Well, Alonso can say what he wants, and you are free to believe him, but his comment is purely subjective.

    During the 3 years they raced together, the results show this.

    2010: LH 3 wins, finished 4th in the WDC. MS no win, finished 9th in the WDC

    2011; LH 3 wins, finished 5th in the WDC. MS no win, finished 8th in the WDC

    2012: LH 4wins, finished 4th in the WDC. MS no win, finished 13th in the WDC

    One can only compare drivers who raced during the same era.

    Saying that Hamilton was better than Schumacher would be as stupid as maintening the opposite.

    Schumacher's best years were behind him at that time, and Hamilton's best years were still to come.
     
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