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Schumacher worked harder, Hamilton has more talent - Massa

Discussion in 'F1' started by cmos, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. cmos

    cmos Formula Junior

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  3. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 Rookie
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  4. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    What does Massa know? He probably started watching F1 in 2007, and probably follows Lewis on instagram. You do know that the internet drivers here knows better than Massa right?
     
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  5. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    Massa still suffering from that bang on the head ?

    Senna and Schumacher took the fight to rivals who were in faster cars.

    I am yet to see this from Hamilton
     
  6. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    Internet drivers disagreeing with Massa in...


    3



    2



    1
     
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  8. Well Ronaldinho has more talen than Messi. Even Messi says that too but hard work overcomes talent 10/10.
    I don’t think he is saying anyone is better. He is saying one reached hi greatness by working hard , the other one had maybe more natural talent (relfexes, physical abilities) its not offensive or putting one above the other.


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  9. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Takes work and talent together. Massa is a good viewer of both drivers. I give 'weight' to his opinion. MS did what he had to do to be successful. Without Lauda LH does not gain his time at Mercedes. Luck, timing, skill/work and talent.
     
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  10. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    Current list of Schumacher's team mates that say Hamilton's talent likely surpasses Schumacher's:

    Rubens Barrichello
    Eddie Irvine
    Nico Rosberg
    Felipe Massa
    Johnny Herbert
     
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  11. Talent to begin with doesn’t mean better. Tell me a sport you like aside F1 so I can provide you with examples. I think u struggle to understand that say Schumacher had less talent but worked harder then
    His results can be the same as someone with more talent.


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  13. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    So basically if they were both racing, Hamilton could fly around the world, party while Schumacher worked with the team, and Hamilton would still come back and kick his butt lol.

    Just kidding man. You are right, Schumacher had a great work ethic, that's why he was so hard to beat. The same with fitness, Micheal was a step above his peers. Brawn says Hamilton work ethic nowadays is very strong also, maybe not as strong as Schumacher's
     
  14. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Funny that Lewis fanbois need to constantly remind us he is the greatest. Doesn't Lewis think Senna is the greatest or doesn't his opinion matter?

    BS, where is the proof/links?



    This is what I dug up.

    Rubens interview with "inside the grid". He sounds a bit salty. Nothing about Lewis being the best.
    “If you put myself against Michael I think it was a 70-30 split, lets put it this way he was better than me. He was more complete and Michael didn’t have bad days, whenever he had a bad day or he was vulnerable the team around him prepared him to be back up. They knew how to affect him positively."
    “But if it was run straight, just the same strategy for everyone I might have won at least one championship … at least one. It doesn’t make a difference now, it’s part of the past. I didn’t and I’m happy with that because I tried.”

    “For example Eddie Irvine, you ask him and he says: I don’t know which gear I take that corner. I got pissed one day because I couldn’t understand how the hell he doesn’t know what gear and he doesn’t really know, he just doesn’t think, he did it naturally."


    Eddie Irvine 2019, Schumie was greatest https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/3993/irvine-schumacher-not-senna-is-the-best-ever/#:~:text=Former Ferrari driver Eddie Irvine,short when compared against Schumacher.

    "I think Michael was probably the best ever," Irvine told BBC Sport.

    "I think Senna's technique was flawed. He was this amazingly talented driver and had an amazing touch, but he had a couple of techniques that weren't correct and he didn't look into everything."

    Massa in 2017 so a bit different to OP link. “Fernando, the first, that’s clear. Schumacher, I would say is at a similar level, Hamilton also at that level.”
    https://wtf1.com/post/felipe-massa-has-ranked-the-top-five-drivers-hes-raced-against-in-formula-1/

    Must be all these snooze races that Lewis won that changed his mind.

    Herbert said Senna is the greatest.



    Rosberg picked Schumie as no1. Lewis is 4th.
    https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/35858/11969152/nico-rosberg-lewis-hamilton-michael-schumacher-in-his-top-five-f1-drivers

    "I go for [Michael] Schumacher," said Rosberg, as he explained the first driver to make his top five.

    "I was with him. He's just a complete all-rounder. For me, the best of all time.

    "Then I'll go for [Juan-Manuel] Fangio.

    "Then I'll go for [Ayrton] Senna.

    "Then I'll go for [Lewis] Hamilton.

    "Then I'll go for [Alain] Prost."
     
  15. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Perhaps you would like a rundown of the current stats as to who has more places at the top????????
     
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  16. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Lewis has spend far more time in cars with a much larger margin over it's competitors than Schumacher ever had. Schumachers true dominant cars where F2002 and F2004. The others he was dominant in...big difference.

    2014, 15, 16, 19 and 2020 the car had a huge performance advantage over it's competitors. 17 and 18 it was the faster car, too, just on some tracks the Ferrari was closer and on a few quicker.

    Given that there are more races per season now than Schumachers' era, it would be highly surprising if he didn't pass Schumacher at this point.

    ''a great quali'' from someone not driving a Mercedes is coming within a few tens of either driver. An outstanding quali is parking it on the 1st row.

    The details of how and why has been discussed to death. Fact of the matter is, 2014-2020 Any remotely competent F1 driver, given the Mercedes would've won the titles. Just like any remotely competent F1 driver would've won the titles in the F2002 and F2004. 2000, 2001, 2003, the only reason Ferrari won the titles was because of Schumacher.
     
  17. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    #14 ktu, Oct 27, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
    First thing is you have me confused with another poster. I never said Lewis was the greatest, as its impossible to know who is greatest. I always said Lewis is among the greatest F1 drivers in history.
    Second thing is most of your research are from years back, when Hamilton's career is far from complete, difficult to judge him at that stage.

    Let me bring you up to date with more current proof of what Schumacher's team mates said about Hamilton:

    Barichello in 2020
    https://www.givemesport.com/1540633-rubens-barrichello-lewis-hamilton-is-more-skilled-than-michael-schumacher-and-ayrton-senna

    Johnny Herbert in 2020
    https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1258770/Lewis-Hamilton-Michael-Schumacher-F1-Rivals-Johnny-Herbert-Mercedes-News

    Massa in 2020
    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/schumacher-hamilton-comparison-massa/4899862/?ic_source=home-page-
    widget&ic_medium=widget&ic_campaign=widget-6


    Roserg- Hamilton has more talent than Schumacher
    https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/4454/hamilton-had-more-talent-than-schumacher-rosberg/

    Eddie Irvine-Hamilton is better driver than Schumacher/Senna
    https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/irvine-hamilton-better-than-schumacher-and-senna/

    Try harder
     
  18. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Rookie
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    For me it isn't about who was/is "best." There is no honest objective way to measure the drivers that can scientifically factor in all the variables. Its just angels dancing on the point of a pin. What I can say, without doubt, is which drivers I liked the best. No phony science, no statistics. Just emotion. I like the following three, each in their time. Prost. Lauda. Schumacher. Nothing to argue about, I just enjoyed watching them race. Hamilton is a wonderful driver, but I don't have any feelings for him. I guess that statistically he is the most successful driver in the hybrid era a cars. And good for him. I think he has a good work ethic, and a lot of talent. And I feel no reason to say anything against him. Michael is my favorite because of the love he felt/expressed when racing...and winning. It was infectious. And when he would sort of conduct the Italian national anthem when he was on the podium, he made my wife and I laugh and we sang along with him. It was fun watching him drive.
     
  19. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    Great post. Everyone one will have a certain driver they like the most, nothing wrong with that.
     
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  20. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    Yes, yes we know Rosberg paired with Schumacher, MSC out of retirement with damaged vertebra.

    Rosberg beat Hamilton.
    Button scored more points than Hamilton.

    Who was faster than the other drivers you mention and available ?
     
  21. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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    G.O.T.E.

    Greatest Of Their Era.
     
  22. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    Ha !
    What an achievement in that Mercedes, even sleepy Bottas is P2 in the WDC.

    Message from Norris to Hamilton;

    "It doesn’t mean anything to me, really," said Norris. "He’s in a car which should win every race, basically.
     
  23. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    G.R.O.T.E

    Great Results Of Their Era
     
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  24. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 Rookie
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    Specific eras of F1 come and go. However the drivers are still around. They then "share" their opinions. Aren't we lucky? Maybe . . . . maybe not.

    Look, all F-chat is is a forum for opinions. I accept that 100%
     
  25. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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    That works too.
     
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  26. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    Yes Schumacher's 5 team mates all know the stats you mentioned above. In fact they know more than us as they are drivers. Yet after seeing all Hamilton stats vs Schumachers stats, their conclusion is Hamilton has more talent than Schumacher.
     
  27. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    Yes Schumacher's 5 team mates all know the stats you mentioned above. In fact they know more than us as they are drivers. Yet after seeing all Hamilton stats vs Schumachers stats, their conclusion is Hamilton has more talent than Schumacher.
     
  28. What’s funny is that we discuss and argue but Schumacher never said anything bad about Lewis and vice versa. Schumacher just once said that records are meant to be beaten and basically the same way he beat prost’s why not Hamilton beating his? When Hamilton retires he will be asked the same and so on:


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