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458 Rust

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by DeTomasoGTS74, Feb 15, 2020.

  1. DeTomasoGTS74

    DeTomasoGTS74 Rookie

    Dec 13, 2016
    14
    Austin
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Long time lurker finally ready to move on a 458 purchase. I have been incredibly impressed with the amount of knowledge on this forum. That said I have dug around on this topic and have not seen much.

    I am looking at a low mileage example that spent its life in a garage near the ocean. As such the bolt and (shock towers?) in the photos below are rusted. Question is have you seen this before and this a car I should run from?

    Next step would be flying out and getting a PPI done but I don’t want to go through the hassle and the expense if this is a car that I should not even consider.

    Thanks




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  2. ShadowLAP

    ShadowLAP Formula Junior

    May 15, 2017
    300
    SW Suburbs of Chicago, IL
    Full Name:
    Lawrence P.
    If it were me, I would arrange for a PPI and then see the car in person before completing the sale. I would want to see the car on a lift for myself. While this might be surface rust visible from the top, I would not be comfortable without knowing what (if anything) lurks underneath.
     
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  3. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 21, 2006
    5,590
    West Coast
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    Ray Johns
    Doesn't look like anything major. From what I can see in the photos, most of that is just surface rust and should be easy to clean off and then touch up with some spray paint and/or touch up paint. Any exposed surface is going to get some oxidation. The rust you want to be most concerned with is when it goes beyond surface rust and turns into more of a cancer.

    Also, keep in mind that some level of rust acts to protect metal. I purchased a Milling machine some years back and every surface was "rusty". But with a little green cleaning pad and some salt and lemons, I quickly was able to remove the rust and expose the beautiful machined surfaces under the top layer of oxidation. It's probably largely the same situation with the rust you have shown in your photos. A little elbow grease and then just hit it with some paint.

    The other thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the car is aluminum. Bare aluminum oxidizes almost instantly, but again it forms a protective layer basically.

    Check around chrome lug bolts to see how much rust there is there (if any). Also, if you can remove the wheels, check around the brakes and see if there is any rust on the bolts holding the rotors on, etc. Ideally, if you can remove the under body panel (when the car is up on a lift) and get some photos showing the entire lay out of the motor, drivetrain, etc. that will tell you a lot more than just a couple of spots that might need some body color touch up paint. I'd also check the underside of the front nose (where it tends to scrape). That will tell you a lot about how the car was driven and cared for. The other thing is look for pitting in the surface paint on the panel just inside the front nose (where the aero wings are and the Ferrari logo is); that's an area which dealers re-spray a lot and which picks up a lot of rock chips (especially if the car has been tracked). Photos of that area should tell you a lot.

    How many miles are on the car? How many owners?

    Ray
     
  4. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 21, 2006
    5,590
    West Coast
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    Ray Johns
    #4 RayJohns, Feb 15, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
    Oh yeah, I'd also request thicknesses of the brake pads at all four corners - with photos - in mm.

    Another thing you might do is request photos of the motor - specifically showing the red plenum. The little valleys on the intake plenums tend to capture a significant amount of dirt, so seeing whether or not the previous owner (or dealer selling the car) took the time to clean that area says a lot about how the car has been cared for also.

    On my 458, about once every two weeks, I went out into the garage with my little Dyson hand held vacuum and vacuumed up all those little dirt fills pockets on the top of the engine intake plenums. So maybe casually ask for a photo showing that area, without saying exactly why you want it.

    Ray
     
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  5. DeTomasoGTS74

    DeTomasoGTS74 Rookie

    Dec 13, 2016
    14
    Austin
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Thank you @RayJohns I really appreciate the thorough advice. Unfortunately the owner lives in a different country and only took the 458 out occasionally when in the states. I do not think he took care of it the level of you (or I). There will be some cleanup of this car required for me and I can assure you given how I take care of my other cars she will be rescued! He is the second owner and the car has only traveled 12,000 miles.

    Looks like I will be flying out to see the car and will also be looking to get a ppi done. I will ensure to look at the red Plenum, have the brake pads and rotors measured, remove the under trays to look for more oxidation, look closely at the nose, and lugs as part of the PPI. Anything else you recommend that I have the specialist look over?
     
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  6. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
    Sponsor

    Aug 25, 2004
    3,596
    Dallas Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve F
    Depending on what chemicals were used when cleaning the car ( Acids and chemicals ) can cause what you are describing.

    Also, brake pads and rotors that are CCM are usually measured in time and weight , whoever performs the PPI for you should have the equipment to get you those answers.

    Lastly, is this car you found so unique that you cant find one in Texas? ( I think above you mentioned that it was located in another country )

    GL with your search!

    S
     
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  7. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 21, 2006
    5,590
    West Coast
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    Ray Johns
    That actually only applies to the rotors, not the brake pads. The brake pads initially start out with 10mm of pad material, so it's easy enough to measure how much has worn down. You're correct regarding the rotors; those lose weight and their appearance changes. They have a weight in grams stamped on them as I recall and then you weigh them to see how much they have deteriorated. At 12K miles, the rotors should be okay.

    I'm not sure, but the computer might also calculate the brake rotor percentage life left - or I might be confusing that with the clutch estimate.

    I would have a Ferrari dealer service department check the car over and run a diagnostic on it. I'd also check to ensure it's been in for service each year and had the oil and aux belt changed over the years, etc.

    Another thing I would suggest - especially if you have the car up on a lift - is to bring a dial test indicator and magnetic base with you and check the run out of each wheel. Also check on the top inside lip and outside lip and rotate the wheels to see if there is any major deflection. Ideally, it should be less than say 1mm. You'd be surprised how easy it is for a nasty pot hole to induce a bend into a rim. That's something very hard to visually see, but easy to feel at higher speeds (in the form of vibration). Moreover, if you don't spot it prior to buying the car, the dealer will just say it happened after the fact. Keep in mind, when it comes to turning around Ferraris at dealerships, usually you are dealing with a lot of sales people who aren't very mechanically or technically adept. Yes, they are all charming and look good in a suit and certainly can help you buy your next car, but we aren't dealing with former veteran F1 mechanics inspecting every square inch of your car before you sign and drive off with it. So check the rims for trueness.

    Also, carefully inspect the paint. Normally Ferrari paint jobs are pretty good on the 458's, but it never hurts to take a very close look with a flashlight.

    Check to make sure all the manuals, tools, keys and everything are present. I can't remember off hand if the 458 has a radio security code, but I believe it has a key code; maybe someone else can chime in on that.

    If possible, supervise the loading and unloading of the car and mark down the exact miles. I don't know which transport company you're going to use, but I can tell you a few horror stories that will keep you up at night. I've had several cars damaged by transport companies and also nearly damaged (had a friend not screamed out to prevent the lift from ripping the nose of my 360 off). Again, usually you aren't dealing with rocket scientists when it comes to transport companies. I had one clown jump into one of my Ferraris and mar the leather by the side window as he went through the window because the truck had no side opening doors. You've got to be super careful if you're not driving it home yourself from your local dealership.

    Ray
     
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  8. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jul 25, 2008
    12,958
    Amersfoort, Holland.
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    Mel
    Yes you need one paper with the security code for the 458 ! Dealer doesn't store that …

    And look for TWO keys that work :)

    Don't forget the nice red panty ...
     
  9. Doctor Mark

    Doctor Mark Formula Junior

    Dec 15, 2005
    514
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Mark Gronsbell
    I would not buy any car that lived in salt laden air or driven often on salted roads. There will be corrosion on most fasteners which are steel. This can make future service more difficult. Plenty of other cars available.
     
  10. DeTomasoGTS74

    DeTomasoGTS74 Rookie

    Dec 13, 2016
    14
    Austin
    Full Name:
    Eric
    All great input, based on feedback from the local dealer that serviced the car than those on this forum, I’m going to continue looking for a car that did not spend time around salt given it’s my hope to hold on to this car for many years to come. Thanks for all the input.
     
  11. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 4, 2014
    4,481
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    Ndugu Umbo
    No salty air would discount the long edge of both coasts, the Gulf and all of Florida. I could understand that as salt and rain are always in the air in those areas and are corrosive. Salty roads would be the Northeast and the Midwest and North if driven in Winter or early Spring if ice persists. If you're looking for a very clean fair weather care the lower panels have to come off and look for no salt or winter grit caught in the usual places. Lots to see when the underbody is exposed. The car you want to keep is out there. Be patient. Someone is saving one with your name on it. Just a matter of time and a little luck.
     
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