RM auction 8 September 2014

Paul or anybody else, why do you think the red 330 America went for so much less that the red GTE? I can see no downside in a bigger engine, condition from the catalogue looked similar, was in original colour, what am I missing ?

 

Simplified.........The ignorance of the present Ferrari buying market........If I had the spare cash at the moment I would certainly have jumped at that car and kept it.........One of only 50 built and it appeared to be faultless........ I would suggest that 90% of those present would never have heard of this model before and perhaps those reliant on a catalogue or on line viewing could not appreciate how good it was...... I left before it was auctioned and fully expected it to hammer sell at 300K plus.......Even though I am informed it was originally Rosso Chiaro I would have changed the colour to Blu Sera or Verde Scuro and that would have been a life long keeper........Compare it to the RHD 330 GT needing everything that sold for more....... In my opoinion someone had the bargain of the entire sale......

 

I believe this car was reported to be non number's matching. Would that not affect not only the value of the car but its appeal to collectors? I was thinking about registering to bid on this but I stayed away when I read it wasn't number's matching.

 

Yes, the America has a restamped motor. I believe it's also a non matching five speed trans. At least it did have one when I last saw the car while it was being converted back to street trim from a vintage race set up.

 

It most certainly would affect the value and I have to say I was unaware of this. Nothing is quoted in the catalogue by the auctioneers but that is no surprise........ I do note however that on all other Ferrari offerings they quote the chassis number followed by the engine number.........Interestingly on this car only the chassis number is published.......perhaps its their subtle way of saying the numbers dont match and its also a valuable lesson when contemplating an auction purchase......

What a pity, in every other respect it looked like a very good car.......

 

80-90% over market value for the Pug?? I'm sorry but I'm afraid you don't know these cars, their place in history or their market. Try finding a T16 Pug for 90k, as you suggest with such low mileage, pristine condition , totally original,and complete with all it's associated bits. If you do I'll buy 2 of them....

 

Hello everyone. I have an opinion that the day is near when an enthusiast buyer wanting a "keeper" will happily search out for a non matching number car just to get a cheaper price. These things are getting out of reach for average walleted mortals. Its only a number !! Doesn't impact on the driving enjoyment.

AT

 

How very true....... I can't even remember what an enthusiast buyer looks like....... Do they still exist ? Take heart Andrew, when this market crashes....sorry, corrects...must be PC......the cars will become affordable again. We have both lived through this before and history tends to repeat itself.......

 

I know of a non matching GTE that was offered 340k euro (owner didn't accept, yet), so it doesn't seem to discount too much.

 

The online catalogue mentioned clearly in the addendum the car had a correct type engine restamped. Not sure correct type means an engine that started in an America, could I guess be any 330GT engine.

 

Engine comes from #5069, another 330 America.

 

Buy 2 cheap ones and get a matching number one and whatever block is on 5069 or a new block. May be this will happen!

 

Another lesson learned.......dont rely on the written word..check on line. Nevertheless, given the apparent visual condition of the car I would still have been happy to own it at the price it sold for.

 

No. Photos mean nothing. ALWAYS check personally on location and with your own eyes only. Every time, no exceptions. It is called doing the homework.

Marcel Massini

 

Somewhat difficult when the car is locked to be able to check the numbers.........As quoted in my earlier post, auction house photographers can work miracles so that is not the issue...... There was a time when a reputable auction company could be relied on to do their homework in advance of the sale......It seems no longer as was proved with the PF last week at the Silverstone auction......Thank you for your lesson in buying Ferrari.......I might take it up as a career.....

 

Did you ASK somebody from RM to open the hood? It costs nothing to ask.
I think it is not right to blame an auction house. Just ask and they will open all doors, hood, trunk lid. I never had the slightest problem with that.

Marcel Massini

 

I like that a lot! And to finally start a reasonable career, you certainly will have my coaching as well!

 

Ah, but then I dont have your connections at RM Marcel......Seriously though I doubt even you would have persuaded anyone to unlock the car when the auction was underway.

Nevertheless I do believe its the responsibility of ANY auction house to confirm such important details prior to publication of their catalogue.......Sure, we are all human and mistakes can be made but this happens somewhat frequently it seems........If the prospective buyer was viewing a car privately or with a dealer they would have the opportunity to check for themselves but many auction clients leave instructions prior to the sale or bid by phone trusting in the veracity of the auction house.......Have no fear, next time I'll jemmy the bonnet open to check all matches....

 

Thank you

 

Paul

THAT naturally is a different thing: ".....when the auction is UNDERWAY....".
DURING the actual auction I can fully understand that nobody wants you to help,
Perhaps next time you arrive earlier and try BEFORE the sale starts? This has zero to do with connections or lack thereof.

And those who bid on the phone or just leave instructions, well, they still should check before the sale or if they can't why not send somebody they trust and who understands what they have to look for?

Marcel Massini

 

70 to 80, not 80 to 90%. I am perfectly aware the car was as new with little mileage. Good examples go for 120 to 130k euro nowadays, and I do not consider the small mileage to be so much of an added value, given the fact the car is sold without papers - bill of sale only (if I understood well).

 

Of course! ... but also before the auction it happens, that just the sellers and its cohort's misleading sales documentation is available and there is no direct access to the relevant details ...

 

just FYI i hear that Jay Kay is get out of that 250 PF purchase, or a least trying his best to on the back of misrepresentation re the matching numbers are not so matching.

 

Did anyone look at the red GTC sold at RM? I believe it sold for £395K, which seems a long way south of recent US sales.

John