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Riyadh Auctions: Yikes...

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by gcalex, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. gcalex

    gcalex Karting

    Aug 16, 2010
    119
    Mostly New Hampshire USA
    Full Name:
    Alex
    Out of idle curiosity, I just looked at the results of the WorldWide Riyadh auction. Horrendous sell-through...

    This prompted me to check the SilverStone Riyadh auction; better, but still terrible.

    Sort of now wish I had watched the live feeds, as I find it hard to imagine what an auction that tepid looks like...
     
  2. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,084
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    I love the Hammer Price app too but don't assume its always 100% accurate to the results the auction house releases. FWIW any auction that sells that fugly truck for $13.2 million must be a success. When I market leading bids on Bugattis, Delahayes and others yet 95+% no sales reported I know that either there is some form of corruption OR more likely inaccurate reportage. It is often opaque as to whether the auctioneer ends his calling with high bid or sold, especially if they use multiple languages.
     
  3. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2004
    1,891
    Worldwide live feed (courtesy of YouTube) was broken. Worldwide’s website cited a “local internet problem.”
     
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  4. GHG

    GHG Formula 3

    Jan 29, 2008
    1,375
    Definitely shut it down due to poor sales.
     
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  5. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 17, 2001
    26,964
    Paris / Chicago
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    Andrew Menasce
    I spoke with hammer and they said the price reported are correct and they are surprised by the amount of high bid not selling as a lot of these bids are on par or higher than market.

    Cars consigned but not for sale just to bring volume/quality to the event?
     
  6. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    11,702
    who wld bid on anything at an auction is saudi??? US and EU auctions are risky enough - saudi? come on.
     
  7. tritone

    tritone F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 8, 2003
    4,780
    On the Rock
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    James
    Neither of the auction houses has posted results to their websites yet (Mon late PM pacific time)
    Also no public info found on the truck sale......suspicious......an onsite FChatter is enroute back to US now, hoping to get some feedback shortly!
     
  8. FrankieFourEyes

    BANNED

    Sep 3, 2019
    36
    would you post those results if you were worldwide? don't expect them anytime soon
     
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  9. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    7,243
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    Cars consigned for auction but not actually for sale would just bring the auction selling rate statistics and the market down, and ultimately will waste a lot of potential bidders' time and money. Not good.
     
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  10. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 17, 2001
    26,964
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce

    Definitely but that is the only explanation i can think of (either the lots were fake or the bids were fake...)

    Why else wouldnt a 300 SL not sell for $1.6m or a 20k miles 288 GTO not sell for $2.8m? A Pagani Huayra for $2.5m? an F40 for $1.450m? Royal family COuntach 25th for $500K?

    So many no sale with bids at or above market.
     
  11. FrankieFourEyes

    BANNED

    Sep 3, 2019
    36
    They were all shill bidded to the max. All they were looking for was one sucker.
     
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  12. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Feb 21, 2001
    3,454
    Some sales at Silverstone ...

     
  13. sbortesi

    sbortesi Rookie

    Dec 22, 2016
    9
    Spain
    Full Name:
    Sandro
    Curious to know your opinion on this: Do you think that a low sell-through is a sign of a seller's market or a buyer's market?

    When a car is not sold, you could argue that sellers are confident that their cars have value, they set a strong reserve and are not desperate to sell at any price. On the other, you could say that an unmet reserve price is a sign of a bubble and that sellers are unreasonable and have bought too high (speculated?), with smart buyers patiently waiting for prices to go down.

    As with most things in life, you could argue that there is a good balance at some level (maybe around 75-80% sell-through?). When I see very high sell-through rates, I worry that sellers may be desperate and prices could be set to plummet. Though sometimes this is a result of a "recommendation" from the auction houses, I think most sellers at these car/price levels are smart enough to understand where the market is for their car.

    That said, the Riyadh sale is way off the mark on the low side, possibly due to marketing, a new/different location or to the off-season nature of this auction. Let's see how the RM Sothebys auction in Abu Dhabi goes tonight...
     
  14. FrankieFourEyes

    BANNED

    Sep 3, 2019
    36
    If the sellers needed the money they would have sold NR or with low enough reserves that buyers in the trade could have bought and still made their margin. What we have is sellers that don't need to sell and buyers that didn't exist. This is an auction out in the middle of nowhere for all intents and purposes. There is no deep rooted car culture in the desert. It is and will always be in North America and Western Europe, with a couple exceptions. I doubt China will even pick up the reigns on the classic car market. Their government and consumer philosophy doesn't encourage it. They want new new new and electric. A small amount of classic car interest exists in HK and the import tax rules make it prohibitively expensive to partake in.
     
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  15. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Owner Miami 2018

    Dec 1, 2000
    49,821
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    any results listed yet? should have already happened. RM site listing a bunch of No Sales, but no results? Hagerty app hasn't had results for a month now.
     
  16. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2004
    1,891
    20/40 of the automotive lots were sold (of which 9 were No Reserve).

    Here's a sampling of the hammer prices achieved for the Ferraris which sold:

    F2002: $5.9 million
    126 C2: $1.9 million
    FXX K: $3.8 million
    365 GTB/4 Daytona Coupe (with non-matching motor and transaxle): $425K
    458 Speciale A: $360K
    F40: No Sale (high bid was $1.3 million)
    F12 tdf: No Sale (high bid was $650K)
    1997 F355 Berlinetta (6-speed): $100K
     
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