Restoring my Grandfather’s Three Pocket Watches - Elgin, Waltham and …

Thank you Brian! It’s always an honor to know that people who I’ve never met are willing to entrust such valuable (sentimental that is) items to my care.

I’m pleased to report that UPS has not let us down. I’ve just opened the package that Brian to me and fortunately, everything appears to have survived the trip in the same condition they were packed... in no small part, I’m, sure to the copious layers of bubble wrap!

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I can’t wait to get to these once I complete the repair that is currently on my bench. As i have time to really inspect these, I’ll be posting here about my findings and document the process of tear down, analysis, repair, and reassembly.

Stay tuned!

 

*Waltham (S/N: 18,466,575) is a Grade 625, Model 1908 that was produced in 1912.
*Elgin (S/N: 9,281,113) is a Grade 258, Model 7 that was produced in 1901.

*note: click either of these for much more information on these two courtesy of the Pocket Watch Database, an amazing site that has collected pretty much everything available on American made pocketwatches. If you have an American pocketwatch and want to find out more about it, this is an excellent first step.

The Westclox is what is referred to as a "dollar watch" because at the time they were new, this is what they were sold for. Think of them as the equivalent of a Wal-Mart Timex wrist watch is now-a-days. Accounting for inflation, that puts them equal to about $15 in today's money. This means they were made as cheap as possible and essentially meant to be throwaway items.

I've not dealt with a "dollar watch" before but I have been reading up on them ever since Brian first contacted me. The shear simplicity of the movements, their utilitarianism, is what I'm enthused by. Its the Chromebook to the Elgin/Waltham's Gaming PC. In the end, they do the same thing they just do it in slightly different ways with different efficiencies, and different accuracies. This is another opportunity for me to practice and may force me to research and learn new techniques and skills. I love it!

The Waltham does have some issues. It needs a new crystal, the front case near the hinge has taken a hit and is causing it to have difficulty closing and unlatching. The biggest issue for running is at least one, if not both, pivot(s) on the balance staff is/are broken. Getting a replacement staff will not be an issue. If any of the balance jewels are cracked or otherwise damaged, that makes it a little more of a challenge, but nothing that can't be solved with a little time and effort. I've done jewels before... no problems.

The Elgin, honestly, I think it is just dirty and there's a possibility that a new mainspring could be in order (same with the Waltham though). When I am able to get them apart, I can check the pivots, jewels, wear surfaces, etc. and see if there is anything other than old, dried up oil and gunk.

The Westclox... I have no idea what to think yet. Probably worn pivots and bushing holes as well as oil either being completely dried up or none existent.

 

Brian, thank you for sharing more of the stories behind these two! I laughed when I saw the Elgin you posted, not because there is anything funny about it but because another f-chatter is sending me an Elgin in an almost identical case! It is a slightly different movement but very similar overall.

 

Good luck on the staff repair! My tip is to reinstall without the hairspring and with a few winds ensure the balance is free, endshake good, etc. You can get it to run slowly bumping the roller jewel off the overbanked fork (not good to do for long or on full wind). I've found sellers of staffs and jewels don't always seem to have the right pivot size even if packaging is marked. It's never fun to replace a staff or jewel where it fits on one end and not the other....Then one is either restaffing again or replacing a jewel when it wasn't needed...The 1908 however was only spec'd with one size I believe unlike Hamilton for example where 3 different pivot sizes can be seen on their 16s watches. Show us the movement side if you get a chance.

 

Project: 1912 Waltham model 1908

Well now, after quite an "exciting" few weeks at home, I'm finally getting back into the Walnut lab. The only thing I really have to share is this image showing the broken balance staff pivot. The other advantage of this image is that it allows me to identify the balance staff that I need to purchase to replace it. There were two different styles used in this model during production and they are distinctly different in shape. At the bottom of the page, you can see where the pivot has broken off.

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Fortunately, it appears that both balance jewels are still in good shape, but I need to get a closer look once everything is all cleaned up. Look at all that debris in there!

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Do you take the cap jewels off? I used to not bother but it makes inspection for hairlines easier. I also now rub the bottom of the cap jewel on a polishing cloth with rouge to pull off any crud before final cleaning. Some of the ultrasonics won't get in there that well. It also can discern concical wear to the jewel if deferred maintenance has been the watch's history. Looks like roller jewel reshellacing is in order. Joy ohh joy!

 

I have not removed the cap jewels yet, I have only taken the balance out to see what was broken. Before I clean anything I will get all of the components disassembled and "peg" the jewels before putting them in the ultasonic cleaner. The cleaner I use does a great job of disolving/breaking up any of the old oils, grease, dirt, etc. Once everything is cleaned to my satisfaction I will get the parts back under my microscope for an inspection.

Something that caught me off guard is the lack of a safety roller. I've looked online and it does appear that this model never had one. The image below shows what the "safety roller" is and if you look at the images in my last post you'll see that all this staff has is a "table roller". Quite interesting.

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I am not looking forward to shellacing the roller jewel back into position but I've needed to make a plate for this type of work (to include pallet jewels) for sometime so at least this is pushing me to finally get that done. For those who are unfamiliar, the jewel in the picture of my post (first picture, post #8 of this thread) should be protruding towards the pivot, not the balance wheel.

 

The photo was hard to discern with reflection but did look off to me. You can verify single roller or double ("safety roller) two ways: 1. double roller will not have a notch or concave "bite" out of the roller table in front of the roller jewel (table is perfectly round) and 2. the fork with have a 3rd finger centered below the two fingers which play on the roller jewel. Single rollers (in which case you don't need any parts) will have a notch in roller table and a pin sticking straight up, usually brass, from the base of the two fork fingers.
I'll send photos from my phone (next msg) of the shellac tool - real cheap on Ebay. The expense is only after having to see the psychiatrist after failing 50 or 60 times to make it work. I have a pic of a crap wheel with no roller on it but it shows how you grab the roller with balance free in the air. You put a flame to the brass on right side and only the roller heats up. I found out the hard way that ordering new shellac flakes for $10 is better than counting on 20 year old stock from melting and adhering well. Hope the tips help. Don't mind comparing notes. Anyhow, good luck keeping the shellac in place, jewel not falling out, etc....

 

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Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

 

Arghh, actually now that I look back it looks like it is single roller from your fork picture. Sorry for wasting the bandwidth here...Is there a notch in the roller table? If so you need nothing.

 

I don't have a photo handy but from what I recall, yes there was a notch in the roller table which now make sense to me. Also, thank you for sharing the image of the tool above. That's not one that I'm familiar with and will be looking for one to add to my "tool box". Please don't hesitate to throw in any information or suggestions you might have, I'm always open to feedback and input from anyone regardless their level of expertise. I'm learning by doing and teaching myself as I go.

 

Subscribed to this thread! I love that history is being respected and preserved for future generations. Plus.....watches over 100 years old always have great stories with them.

 

Kudo's to @QtrItalian for bringing that specialty tool to my attention. I've just found one to add to my "tool box" as I know it'll come in handy not only on this project but certainly on others in the future.

 

Parts parts parts! Today, all of the parts I ordered for my current “customer” projects arrived. Mainsprings aren’t really exciting to look at but the new crystal and balance staff arrived for the Waltham. I know it’s hard to tell in the crystal picture but its pretty much a perfect fit. I will bond it into place as a last step. Don’t want to accidentally break it while fixing something else!

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Looking at that last picture I’m reminded of the scene in “Austin Powers: The Spy That Shagged Me” where Fat Bastard first sees Mini-me. “Christ he’s tiny! I’ve had bigger chunks of corn in my crap!”

 

Looking good. The nice thing is that Waltham went to friction staffs so all you do is bring the balance onto the staff where it's hub slides on and meets the flange and you're done. You don't have to rivet. When riveting a wristwach one can be liable for shearing off the flange. On pocketwatches it seems there's common results of getting the balance arms slightly out of true. Then it's off to truing for an hour...On the other hand with insufficient riveting one can have a balance wheel that looks tight but not until getting the roller and hairspring on does it become obvious that one can't keep things lines up. I don't know why more companies didn't go to this style...

 

I’ve decided to tackle the Elgin first as I’m now waiting for the new tool to arrive. First off, look at the detail on these hands!

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Second, I’ve taken parts off of my Ducati that weren’t as robust as some of the parts in this watch. This thing is STOUT! I’ll post some pictures of individual parts later to show what I’m talking about but here is the watch in its current condition. Look at the top right of my parts tray and you can see just how thick the bridges are.

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Plenty of dirt, grime, a touch of rusty patina, and old oil in there that needs to be cleaned. I’ll have to check pivots and whatnot after everything has been degreased as I doubt I’d be able to see what’s really going on until then.

Another thing that I will double check is to see if all of the serial numbers match. I’m guessing they do but it is always fun to look for. Who knows, if something doesn’t match, maybe I will be able to find the original component on a forum, Facebook group, or eBay. I’ve seen it happen before!

 

Ok, I couldn’t help but take a look at the dollar watch. I’m honestly surprised at how well it runs! Amplitude (ignore what my timegrapher says in the picture below, I always check amplitude with slow motion video) is around 200 degrees at full wind and I can get it dialed in to around +/- 45 seconds a day in the hanging orientation with a really low beat error. The pace is all over the place which I’m sure is due to wear on the pivots and the pivot holes, dried up oil, etc. but as I said, this is much better than I expected.

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I am happy to report the following:

1) The "dollar watch" is still running strong this morning after being wound last night, roughly 4 minutes slow over 12 hrs. I don't know what the expected accuracy is but that seems good to me considering the condition. We'll definitely get it better than that before it goes back to Brian though.

2) All of the serial numbers I can find on the Elgin match.

 

I haven't opened it up yet so I cannot confirm this 100% but from what I can see, yeah, not a single jewel to be found. from the glimpse I can get of the spring, it does seem pretty thick and quite tall.

 

Today I peered a little further into the abyss. No signs of any jewels but I cannot see the roller pin or ends of the pallet fork, I don’t there are any there though. I did get a couple of approximate measurements on the mainspring. It appears to be 4.00mm wide and 0.25mm thick. For reference, the mainspring in the movement I’ve been building for my home-brew pocket watch is 1.50mm wide and 0.13mm thick. That makes this mainspring approximately 20 times stronger than what is required for my watch. Also, it looks like it is only unwinding about half way before stopping. Ideally, all of those rings of the spring should be pressed flat against each other, against the outer edge of the barrel with only about half a coil coming in and wrapping / attaching to the arbor in the middle. Given where they are resting I think it is safe to say that this spring is absolutely shot.

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Amazingly I think I may have found a replacement spring that will be suitable for this! Just have to wait until I can get the entire thing apart and measured to be sure.