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Reflections on F12

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by hergiswilreid, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. hergiswilreid

    hergiswilreid Rookie

    Aug 21, 2011
    8
    Hi all,

    After 15 months and almost 2,000 miles, I have sold my F12 (and Porsche 991.2 GT3) today. Perhaps it's my age (51), but after taking both cars on 500 mile roundtrips on some of Scotlands best and quietest roads this summer (not the NC500, but elsewhere in the Highlands), I concluded that to enjoy these particular cars properly, you really need to be stretching their engines, which means you just go too fast. Even with no-one around, it's still too fast to be comfortable. Yes, they sound great at lower revs too, but I want my cars to do what they were built/bought for and for the F12, to me, that means stretching the engine. I had a 458 spider a few years ago, then did 488 GTB (not engaging enough after the 458) and thought I was missing an engine, so went for the F12 (and GT3). I've now concluded, that what I was missing wasn't the engine, but the open air, so I have an incoming 488 Spider. That will allow me, I hope, to experience the 'thrill of driving', but at lower speeds. I'm also hoping the open air will allow the engine to better showcase its sound to me than the GTB did and get the balance of fun v speed in a better equilibrium.

    Finally, for the F12 (potential) owners out there - if you can, I'd definitely recommend changing to the 812 spec Michelin PS4S tyres, instead of the stock PZeros. I read that advice on several threads and figured I'd go for it. It transformed the handling of the car - I was able to push it way more in the dry and feel confident in the wet. Ironically, it was that ability to push that got me going too fast for my comfort and lead to the sale of the F12 (and GT3) today.
     
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  3. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ

    Jul 19, 2006
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    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    You sound confused to me.
     
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  4. Quietriot

    Quietriot Rookie
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    Oct 28, 2018
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    Thank you for sharing. I see your point of view.
     
  5. KY _Soldier

    KY _Soldier Formula Junior
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    Oct 13, 2008
    439
    Louisville KY
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    Eric Rahman
    Sounds like you want an 812 GTS?
     
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  6. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Comor Bidity
    Thanks for sharing. Theses cars are very fast and it takes some getting used to. I see that you've gone through five (5) cars in three (3) years including the one on order if I'm counting correctly so hopefully you'll find a car that you are comfortable with. Best.
     
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  8. 96redLT4

    96redLT4 Formula Junior

    Feb 20, 2009
    379
    California
    Full Name:
    Jim
    You sold your F12 and 1.2 GT3 on the same day to better showcase the sound in a 488 spider. Uhhh. OK. I don't think it's your age. I'm 56 and have been waiting my whole life to get into a Ferrari V12!
     
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  9. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 6, 2003
    22,361
    Las Vegas, NV
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    Ryan Alexander
    Yes I switched to SS4S from the SSK2 and they are the best tire I've driven. Very predictable bite and turn in. Competent when cold and tears the road apart when hot.

    I hope that you find what you're looking for, I was also surprised as i read along i expected you to say you got a 4C, Boxster Spyder manual or something in the "light and nimble" category. Or a manual 360 Spider, or even 430. My brief experience with the 488 was that like the other turbo cars, in Race there is so much torque it eggs you to go faster and faster. And the lack of engine volume you lose that "auxiliary speed warning system."
     
  10. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2011
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    F12 is much more useable than a 488. Just admit you wanted a change which is understandable.
     
  11. Cavallino Nero Rampante

    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 16, 2018
    99
    Full Name:
    ST
    ...and light years better sounding! If the OP wanted the combination of open air and great sound he should have gone with a 458 Spyder or an 812GTS. Well it's HIS journey and let's hope that he finds what he wants.
     
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  13. hagen111

    hagen111 Karting

    Feb 25, 2006
    83
    I love my 991.2 GT3...the engine sound is as thrilling as the v12 in my F12. I love the shifts and stretching the engine at lower speeds...brrrrr....goosepumps.

    F12 V12...way to fast...scary...an icon...so beautiful.

    Yet...they are only cars, chase your dream, change your habits, create new emotions. A topless rear engine Ferrari may deliver anything that you want.
     
  14. nickorette

    nickorette Karting
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    Jun 19, 2017
    99
    Toronto
    Being "fun to drive slow" is one of the main criterias I look for in my cars. The problem is that as cars have gotten newer they are both more heavily reliant on electronics but also more refined with lower NVH. Meaning you need to be going faster to get the same feedback you once got before.

    With ever tightening C02 and sound emission regulations forcing use of turbos, GPF's etc, it means that most modern super cars also either don't sound as good or aren't as loud as their predecessors.

    I personally don't think you'll find what you're looking for in 488 Spider. While being a great and capable car it certainly wouldn't match the low speed fun offered by other vehicles. I'd suggest looking into a Scud/F430, V12 Vantage/DBS manual, Lotus Elige V6 and even look at 458's again. If it has to be more modern I would suggest a Huracan EVO RWD Spyder. There isn't nearly the same level of feedback to the analog aforementioned examples, but the naturally aspirated, performante-derived V10 completely dominates the experience. Combined with short gearing and exquisite styling it is something also worth looking into
     
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  15. jr-f12-15

    jr-f12-15 Rookie
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    Feb 25, 2020
    19
    Kingwood Township, NJ.
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    John Refalo
    Love my F12, and I understand the dilemma. I solved that by getting up early, taking a nice civilized drive to the track then spend the day at V12 speed before driving back, the F12 is amazing and so much fun both off and on the track. I'm 64 now and look forward to many more years of V12 bliss. Hope you find the right combination for you as I have. cheers.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  16. buddyg

    buddyg F1 Rookie
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    Sep 20, 2004
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    I think you actually want a Bentley convertible. Go slow, wind in your hair and in grand style.
     
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  17. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2011
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    IMO none of those listed are nearly as good as the F12.
     
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  18. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2011
    5,720
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    I am takin my F12 on a road trip tomorrow. Packing my stuff and clubs and will turn a 3 hour trip into 2 hours. Valves open and crushing it.
     
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  19. Chadly

    Chadly Formula Junior
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    Mar 21, 2010
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    Chad
    F12 is definitely one of the most intimidating cars I've driven. I could see why someone would think its a bit much. Its the closest thing I car have driven to an R1. I totally get what you are saying. I still love my F12 but my 458 is still a blast because it seems like you are in so much more control. I'd go back to a 458!
     
  20. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 6, 2003
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    The 458 has a sweet spot of power/weight where you can get to WOT a fair bit when messing around. If you're used to just jamming the throttle, you'll get in trouble with the F12.
     
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  21. nickorette

    nickorette Karting
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    Jun 19, 2017
    99
    Toronto
    Depends what one is looking for. Original poster was looking for fun, thrilling and engaging to drive slow -he wasn't happy with either F12 or GT3 for this role
     
  22. Rory breaker

    Rory breaker Karting

    Apr 17, 2017
    229
    What’s wrong with some of you people here? The guy is sharing his own personal experiences owning and driving the cars. I don’t agree with his perspective but can absolutely respect and appreciate what this person is conveying. They feel uncomfortable going so fast, so they are changing it up to prioritize the open air part of the experience. I don’t see OP being confused, in fact I see the opposite.

    enjoy the drop top in good health, have fun!
     
  23. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 9, 2008
    5,696
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    Edward
    I like that list of yours a LOT! I’ve owned all of those and the most fun daily driver was my Lotus Elige....
    I agree as well the H. Perf was fun but a tad too digital and “fast” for me.
    I traded the Perf for a Speciale and couldn’t be happier.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  24. colonels

    colonels Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2011
    564
    many people seem to want the loud exhaust note which the F12 doesn't let you hear with the massive amounts of sound dampening because it is a GT car

    if you were watching the F12 drive by it would be plenty loud

    and apparently the music of the v12 engine high pitched harmonics just didn't do it for you (closest thing to F1 racing noises)
     
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  25. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 6, 2003
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    Hey hey, it's not like the F1 subforum, or Australia, where he's being hoisted up and paddled viciously for any opinion.

    But he did say that he feels like the 730hp, 3.0 second car is too fast to be enjoyed, so he's trading it for the 660hp, 2.9 second car.
     
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  26. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    If you're referring to the Yamaha R1, I totally get where you are coming from. I recently test drove an 812 Superfast and that was one of the very first things that struck me about the car as well; I remember thinking, "this feels about as close to being on an R1 as any car I've ever driven". I would imagine it's very similar with the F12.

    With regard to the original post: the 458 has a nice balance of power, sound, enjoyment and drivability for the street. The 488 lacked any really sound / driving engagement in my opinion. I have a hard time thinking anyone could go from an F12 to a 488 and be thrilled. Even just going from the 458 to the 488 was a disappointment. Sure, the 488 is faster, but overall I think it lacked a lot of the charm of the 458. From zero to sixty, the 488 is definitely a thrill ride - but that gets old fast and then (at least for me) you're left thinking maybe a 458 is more fun for the street.

    Anyway, I can definitely see where some might feel like the F12 is a lot to handle. I'm turning 55 this year and I ended up selling my R1 because I felt like maybe it was becoming too dangerous in some areas. It was pretty highly modified and unless I rode it constantly, I felt like it wanted to kill me here and there. With that said, the F12 is definitely on my list of future cars to buy. As soon as I build a home with a larger garage, I'm planning on buying either another 458 or an F12 (or 812 maybe).

    Ray
     
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  27. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ

    Jul 19, 2006
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    Rory, Rory.....Rory.
    Did you actually READ his post?
    He’s confused.
    He sold a Porsche 991.2 GT3 and an F12 because “it’s too fast” and “can’t stretch the engine” and bought a 488 Spider (which is faster than the 911 and pretty close to the F12 in speed with much less emotion). He felt the F12 couldn’t be used, and had a 458 Spider in the past, and because he missed the open air (but 488 GTB was “not engaging enough” after the 458—his words) so he bought a...no, not a 458 Spider, but a 488 Spider. He wanted to experience the “thrill of driving,” so he got rid of an F12 AND a 991.2 GT3 for a 488.
    This guy is confused, soooooo confused I am dizzy reading his post. My post is confusing just trying to follow the Möbius strip of his rationale.
    Oh...and in 9 years he has posted 5 times...don’t expect him back any time soon either. ;)
     
  28. Rory breaker

    Rory breaker Karting

    Apr 17, 2017
    229
    I see where you’re coming from but these things aren’t mutually exclusive. Meaning...the f12 could feel too fast, he wants a drop top and likes the 488...that doesn’t mean the 488 is disqualified from his consideration because it’s as fast or faster, right? Maybe the drop top puts it over the top, maybe he doesn’t hammer it in the 488 because he’s enthralled with the open air he didn’t have in the f12. For example, my tesla is too fast. I don’t ever launch it. Ever. I have it for all the other things it does. Know what I mean?
     
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