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Re-paint or leave original

Discussion in '348/355' started by Boaf 32, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
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    Fellow 355ers,

    I have a 1999 355 F1 Spider in Tour de France Blue and need to hear your thoughts about a re-spray.

    My Ferrari has one blemish on the hood, a small rock dent on the headlight cover and some stone chips on the front bumper. It is not really noticeable (except for the dent and blemish).

    My question is, if I eventually want to re-sell it, is it better to leave original paint or re-spray the entire car. Matching the paint is a challenge I'm sure.

    Thanks for your thoughts.

    Boaf.

    PS I'm enjoying the car too much to even consider selling it soon, just always thinking ahead
     
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  3. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Doing a respray proper requires taking the car completely apart including windshield removal. Fix the dent and chips and move on. You are looking at big bucks otherwise.

    I'll be spending somewhere around $20K to have my 95 GTB done and that is with me doing all of the disassembly and reassembly.
     
  4. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 10, 2007
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    I had the nose of my car sprayed to fix light rock chips. The shop used the original brand and type paint, really turned out perfect. I'm happier now than when it had imperfections. Everything was documented so is perfect re spray worth less than chipped original? I don't know but not selling so I'm not concerned about it :)
     
  5. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    If you find a good shop and pay for good work you wont be able.to tell it was done.

    If you take it somewhere that just does collision jobs thats what youll get on this job. Good enough for most people aint good enough for me.

    The hood bumpers all of it should be able to.be color matched perfect.
    The whole car should be perfect you could have them add clear to the rest of the car not getting color for a proper cut and buff to a smooth as silk shine.

    Repaints on these cars are almost a nessesity if you drive them at all.
     
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  6. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
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    This is good feedback. I have re-sprayed 928s' and land cruisers and it is an art to make sure if you do not do an entire re-spray, it is challenging to match the fading of paint. Going to continue to think about it. I would re-paint the front bumper, hood and head light if I was selective.

    Boaf
     
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  8. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    When you start taking these cars apart (like I am) you start to realize the gazillions of parts. Pretty soon I will have parts in kitchen :)

    Again, windshield must come out since the moulding sits on the paint. The moulding and trim are $400 ish alone. If the glass breaks, another $1500 ish from Europe. Carpets need to come out which means most of interior. Rockers, bumpers, fenders, tail lights, rear grill, glass out of doors, door locks......

    I'm not even done but typing that got me tired ;)
     
  9. John M

    John M Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2004
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    I would fix it. The nose takes lots of abuse if it gets dragged. I would take a good look at that front fiberglass bumper cover from underneath at the skid plates and look for stress cracks from the impacts. If you find them, she will need fiberglass repair prior to painting. Find a good shop that knows what they are doing, and address the issues that are annoying you. I use a local restoration shop for such activities. Just realize though, you will chip that front bumper again. :D
     
  10. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
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    Take lots of high res photos to document why the paint work was done. :)
     
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  11. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3
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    This is exactly what I was going to say. To me paint is a wear item on a car that gets driven and an entire car repaint shouldn't do anything but increase the value for having nicer paint. But no matter what level you go to anything that gets resprayed you should take pictures of the before and the process to show you repainted due to blemishes and rock chips not a hidden full on collision. Many Ferrari buyers are very paranoid and any indication that work was done instantly sends them into worst case senario mode which in their mind has you trying to cover up major damage.
     
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  13. KMR968Turbo

    KMR968Turbo Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2007
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    Car is only original once. Full respray won't pay for itself in resale value and may lead to a bunch of questions - like why was it painted? Maybe in an accident? If painting for your enjoyment then why not? But for added value? Forget about it
     
  14. buddyg

    buddyg F1 Rookie
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    Does a good repaint really need to cost $20,000 Dave?
     
  15. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

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    I would rather buy a car that had an extensively photo-documented respray than one with tired original paint, but I agree that the paint job wouldn't pay for itself in resale value in many cases.
     
  16. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Yep and that is cheap. And remember, that is with me doing a ton of the work.

    Adding the matt black accents is part of the challenge.

    People underestimate what goes into a full respray (done proper). I might do mine myself only because I can't find a shop I trust.

    We might add a car size booth next year and if so, I will do mine myself but it might take 5 years :)
     
  17. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula Junior
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    I own a very respected collision center in Dallas. I almost never do resprays. If I do, they start at $4500 and go up, with an average of $8000. I hate doing them. To do them to a high, high standard is $20k easily on the right car. Nearly complete disassembly, prep, prep, prep. Paint, buff, assemble and buff/wax again. No one is ever completely happy. I can find flaw in any car paint - any! But as you get to high dollars, more time and patience, the flaws subside.

    Factory paint work is a different process and product. In the collision industry the equipment has limitations, relative to super controlled environment of manufacturer plant. A $100k paint only restoration for multi million dollar cars is not unreasonable and nearly 90-95% flawless.

    My 348 has paint work, done terribly. I will fix and pass on to next owner someday, for now I am doing the obvious stuff that really bothers me, but the idea that a car is flawless and perfect is disgusting to me. A little patina like a fine wine is normal. Our skin and our bodies age and so do cars. A flaw is like a freckle. The idea that paying for 100% perfection and being disappointed in anything less that that is not a client I want. It is not reality.

    I hate lazy poor work with terrible overspray and tape lines, that is bad. That is unacceptable and those who do that are lazy and I would not want them to work for me. There has to be a balance.

    And no, I will not paint anyone's Ferrari other than a bumper or trim. I will do to a high standard at a fair but expensive price. I stand behind it and my quality is above industry standard, but it will not be flawless. I will charge more for 97% and it will still not satisfy some owners I know.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  18. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
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    I have had my front bumper sprayed three times until I surrendered and put a clear bra on it. The shop I used is famous for Ferrari restoration and did a superb job and it cost around $750 each time.

    The quote to do my car to a high standard with me pulling all parts off? $22,000.

    Touch up until you can't anymore.
     
  19. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Normally I won't quote an entire post but damn!!!! That so well written and true. :)
     
  20. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    +1

    I would go 1 step further

    If I was buying a ferrari I would far rather have a non documented respray that looks nice than chips or dents or anything obvious.

    Mostly because I am going to drive it.
     
  21. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula Junior
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    Thanks for the kind words above. Will be reaching out to you for interior sticky bits soon


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  22. 97spiderman

    97spiderman Karting

    Dec 15, 2008
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    As long as you can deal with the minor imperfections, I would leave it. After all 20 years of wear and tear .... Most of us do not drive museum pieces, and who would want to?
     
  23. IAmNotCasey

    IAmNotCasey Formula Junior

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    Can you remove the dented headlight cover and have it paintless dent repaired? Other problems sound like they should be touched up by a pro.
     
  24. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2009
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    On the 355, most will have paint work simply due to the cracks that form on the seam at the rear buttress. It can also be matched just fine.

    As far as 20k reprints, I had my 88 328 GTB repainted last year. Glass out, bare metal. About 8k and it turned out great. Not Pebble Beach, but very good for a #2 quality car. I asked the shop owner why so many pay 20k for a repaint. His answer was, "because they want to".
     
  25. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Hi Skipp - I think the shop you used will be out of business soon :)

    I can't speak for a 328 but a 355 has quite a lot of Matt black as well as the main color. In mine, I plan to have the engine bay done also.

    Last year on the car I sold, I had the bumpers and one door skirt painted (stripped, minor repair work) and that was $3500ish alone. And, I feel that price was fair.

    Materials alone for a full respray are $3000ish.
     
  26. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Hi Dave,
    The shop I used has been in business for more than 20 yrs. I'm simply saying it can be done for much less. Hope you're well.

    Skipp
     
  27. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Hi Skipp,

    I understand. I'm just saying that your shop must be working for like $20.00 an hour.....

    I've done plenty of painting in my life and it's a ton of work (the prepwork, anyway) I'm glad you got a job you are pleased with for a pretty small number but I'd personally be scared if someone quoted me $8K.....

    I just don't know how they can do it...

    Assume on the low side of $2K for materials...that $6K in labor - at $50 per hour that is 120 hours (3) 40 hour weeks. No way could I see it getting done in that little of hours...

    Remember....

    - Disassemble car including glass removal
    - Strip all panels (most shops want to do this mechanically and not chemically)
    - bare metal prime (epoxy or other)
    - body work
    - more primer
    - block sanding
    - if single stage, coat, then wet block sand between coats
    - matt black areas
    - final wet sand and polish (this could be up to 25-30 hours alone)

    ...............and finally, put all the parts back together and hope you don't chip anything :)
     
  28. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    #25 Nuvolari, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
    To answer the OP, given the blemishes you cite, a full re-spray is not necessary and would likely devalue the car come resale time. What is possible is a partial re-spray that addresses only your problem areas. If done properly this will be 100% perfect and if you document the process properly will in no way affect resale of the car later on. There will always be that small percentage of buyers who just stop listening the instant they hear the word 'paint' but then again your car has chips so you will loose out to those wanting perfect paint so either way you are fine. In your shoes I would get the car properly touched up with a nice paint correction all around and enjoy.

    As for people turning their noses at 20K paintwork I will say that there is a tremendous lack of knowledge in doing so. Paintwork quality means vastly different things to different people. What is perfect for one guy is barely acceptable junk to another and the last 5% takes a cubic amount more time to achieve than the first 95%. Mind you 20K DOES NOT get you a 'last 5%' job. Those cost closer to 6 figures (did I mention cubic time for that last 5%). Nowadays $20K will struggle to match OEM paint that is 'ok' on a good day.

    What I do struggle with is how good a paint job for $8K is. With materials easily topping $3K that leaves $5K to do the balance of the car. At a modest $50/hr that leaves 100 hours (2.5 9-5 work weeks) for one person to do the following:

    1. Disassemble including glass removal
    2. Mask everything off
    3. Strip body down to bare metal (lets assume the body is perfect)
    4. Spray fill and block sand the body at least once (the bodies are far from straight so this is a minimum step). Higher end jobs do this at least 3 times.
    5. Prime the body
    6. Sand the primer
    7. Paint the body
    8. Do all of the blacking
    9. Touch up any of the inevitable paint issues (small runs, debris in paint). NOT a water sanding and polishing as that would be extra.
    10. Re-assemble the whole car. These are not BMW's and they are very time consuming to put back together even quickly let alone properly.

    This list ignores the required clean up and re-masking between steps and represents the bare minimum procedure for anything beyond a Toyota Corolla. Even working fast some major corners need to be cut in order to get this job done in 2 weeks. Most customers don't know any better so they are happy with shiny new paint but don't for a moment think you got a deal or outsmarted the system. You will get what you paid for and the guy who spent 20K will get what they paid for. 3 times better? NO but this is a land of exceptional diminishing returns which is why the Pebble Beach paint is closer to $100K. Problem is that the $20K crowd think that they are paying all the money in the world when in reality they are just getting started.
     

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