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488 Pista Alignment Video at Manthey Racing

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Chicko, Apr 4, 2020.

  1. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
    3,683
    Australia
    I'm not sure what Ferrari would say officially. The dealer's mantra is Ferrari is selling you an engine and the rest is for free! Maybe they've been give that as a basis on which how to manage any deficiency which a client may bring to their attention?

    Why not track it/beat on it? What else would you do with a car like a Pista? Sure it's a street car but where can you exploit the full potential of the car on a public road these days?
     
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  3. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,591
    France
    The good news is that there is hope for Ferrari :)
    The bad news is that their cars - even those claiming to be track focussed - are not tuned for track use out of the box, which is a shame IMHO, because that's where they should shine (I agree they're not track/race cars, but to me they should just make the necessary compromises to be road legal and allow you to go from home to a track on the road, with just acceptable comfort).
    Probably they made their marketing homework and decided that such definition would not allow them to have enough customers at the asked prices - it's probably financially safer to address more people looking after social status.
     
  4. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    726
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    The vast majority of people who buy Ferraris do so for a street car and a symbol of wealth. If one wanted a good track car, a faster one could be had for 1/10th of the price of a Pista.
     
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  5. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2011
    6,103
    East
    Dont forget they are beautiful to look at, fun to drive and for an occasional track day they work well. However they are not race cars.
     
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  6. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2006
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    True they are not race cars and I do not think anyone here is saying they are...maybe I am wrong. Even Porsche GT3/RS is not tuned out of the box for track use. I have always had to do some alignment and ride height work to my Porsche’s to get them to a better place for the track. These Ferrari’, Porsche’s, and so forth are marketed to such a wide audience and driver ability they can not make everyone happy.

    Roberts alignment as he mentioned in his detailed video was to what he liked. Someone else may not like it and it is tuned to his tires and the track he drives on all the time. However usually this will give a good rule of thumb alignment and I bet Roberts alignment would work on the street too as it is not really too aggressive.
     
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  8. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
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    #56 Shadowfax, May 5, 2020
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
    Yeah but I totally relate to what Robert says about the steering feel and controls. Not sure why they feel the need to create an artificial race car feel having things so unecessarily twitchy which only unravels the connection of the car the faster you put it through corners. I'm keen to apply the settings he's provided now just to see how it stacks up against the steering feel in the Gt2 and 3rs, both which have a far more honest feel at all speeds which is really what I like/expect from this type of car.

    No question in my mind that Porsche's Gt cars are set up way better out of the box. The GT cars have a superior connection, not discounting Pista or its capability as it is a fabulous car but I still don't get the need for this pretentious twitchy BS. I also think you are spot on about your later comment re their marketing approach. It's the only thing that makes any sense why they set the car up the way they do, and I think this is also evidenced by the pointless removal of the glove-box. The car is not a track car and will see far more road use than anywhere else so removing handy storage is just pretending again.
     
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  9. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2006
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    As I basically mentioned in post #55 after a few here think Ferrari got it wrong on the Pista set up...Ferrari has to set up the car for every customer...basic average driver and mostly street driving. The Pista like other performance cars ...Porsche GT3's...can be further adjusted to your specs based on your driving style, experience and track.

    This video...link below... just publish by Robert Mitchell from Apex about his Pista and why he did the set up he did further validates Ferrari did not get it wrong and what considerations you need to be aware of if you change your alignment.

     
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  10. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula 3

    May 10, 2012
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    Paulo
    At this point you’re like noone with the difference you own an old Ferrari. How can you even talk back to owners when they critic their cars?! Are you well?
    Just be quiet and listen to the ones who know like any adult when he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
     
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  12. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
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    #60 Shadowfax, May 10, 2020
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
    At least with with Noone1 he was always honest in admitting his position even at risk of being ridiculed. Zeus OTOH is resorting to secrecy in a desperate bid to hide the truth. It's pretty clear there is NO old Ferrari or any other car and his source of criticism is based purely upon reference material and an extreme form of Ferrari fanboy ism. He won't show a pic or even tell the model as there is nothing to show or tell. I think we need to face up to the fact we've been played.

    It would appear that within no time at all Noone1 has been replaced entirely with a less honest and trickier form. Sad really. I had always taken Zeus as a multiple super-car owner even though I've always had strong suspicions which I never further explored, mainly due to his polite demeanor. I kinda feel duped now and really should have tested his claims a long time ago.
     
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  13. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 13, 2015
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    I agree, there’s absolutely no reason to not post pics of the car or at very least the model info and his impressions. It’s beyond not wanting to post personal info. It’s just Fanboyism.
     
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  14. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
    3,683
    Australia
    Yes its quite a revelation but at least we all finally know where we stand. It evidently appears the Realzeus episode is playing out exactly how it did for Noone1 where Zeus too has also managed to miraculously sail under the radar undetected for many years casting criticism and contesting actual owners all the while without so much as any question or scrutiny.

    Desirably posters should own a Ferrari however, if they don't, then they should at least behave as Takefixe suggests by keeping quiet and listening to those who actually do own or have personally experienced the cars in question. The way I see it, Zeus needs to fess up, put up, and shut up, or be put to follow the same path as Noone1 outa here......as in on the end of a very large boot. The Fanboyism really needs to stop.
     
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  15. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
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    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Do y'all actually believe anything you read on the internet? Take it with a grain of salt. Sift through the BS. Let us not start censoring posters in this fashion. No good can come of it.
     
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  16. ylshih

    ylshih Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Advising Moderator Honorary Owner

    Mar 21, 2004
    16,235
    Northern CA
    Full Name:
    Yin
    This site doesn't discriminate between owners and non-owners. There are many very knowledgeable non-owners, including past owners, marque experts, race drivers and Ferrari technicians, who have better experience, knowledge and credentials than the majority of owners.

    Ownership status is never considered when deciding on moderation actions; rather the basis for any action are the specifics of a user's behavior, whether on a single post or a pattern of posting, which leads to a determination of the violation of site rules. Sometimes non-owners who have an outsize ego and short temper build up enough of a history to result in severe actions, other times users who go around claiming superiority over non-owners will often find themselves at the focal point of a moderation action themselves.

    If you don't find a user credible, put them on ignore. Yes, it may be annoying to see the trail of replies to a non-visible post, but it's what the software allows, so better to use it.
     
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  17. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
    3,683
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    #65 Shadowfax, May 11, 2020
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
    That's a bit and fast. I've come across some very good information on the internet inc here.

    I'd agree BS and pure fanboyism should be taken with a big grain of salt - and it (usually) is - but everything has limits.

    With Zeus he refuses to accept an owners opinion or experience without retorting in a defensive manner - his retort based upon nothing other than fanboyism, sometimes accompanied by reference extracted from a source which suits his own cause. Zeus is also equally as persistent as noone1 i've found, and can stalk.

    So in terms of "limits" it would be appreciated if there was consideration given toward a limit being placed upon fanboyisn, fanboyism which has the potential of detracting owners from offering their personal experiences in fear of being continually stalked and contradicted. It shouldn't always be about the ignore feature either imho. I personally don't mind or scare from a bit of argy bargy - it can be entertaining to a point - but it's the limit of the fanboy based argy bargy - which has been allowed to continue on occasion - which leaves me questioning more than anything else, and I suspect that is the much same case for others here. So it isn't a matter of censorship at all. It's a matter of limit.

    I'm also a believer everyone has a right of reply regardless of whether they own or not, but when they don't own or have personally experienced yet want to repeatedly contradict those who have then I believe there needs to be moderation in place rather than have an ignore button as a blanket fix. A person who doesn't own or have any experience should be allowed to have their say - I've no problem with that - but not constantly continue to whittle away at the person who has.
     
  18. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    5,061
    It’s an interesting video and opens up a discussion about alignment.
    All of us have had our wheels, whether it be a Ferrari or not, aligned.

    I would imagine that if you brought your Ferrari to an authorized service center, that the mechanic would follow what Ferrari has determined to be the correct set-up for your car based on certain parameters such as ride height, rim choice and tire choice. If you have altered any of these, such as lowered the car, used different rims or a new tire model, that could certainly affect and change the optimal settings. Perhaps even tire pressure would make a difference. And then there is driver preference. And then there is the track.

    I am sure that Ferrari has considerable expertise in this area. At one point in the video, he commented on the fact that he was unable to lower beyond a certain level which was exactly the same in all four corners even though there was more visible thread. He thought it was a machining defect. Or perhaps it was actually done on purpose by Ferrari for a reason which he doesn’t understand?

    If slight changes to caster, camber, and tow make a huge difference, then his earlier comments about trading a brand new Pista seem a bit rash. And of course if you lower the car whose height was set to meet road use, that will improve your track focused performance. And of course when you lower a car, that changes the alignment. Caster camber and tow would be different and need to be revised.

    Which car would he have traded the Pista for? If he drives at the green hell exclusively and doesn’t race at other tracks, then one set up is needed. If he competes at other tracks, each track would require trial and error to get the best set-up and times.
     

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