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PC Class Disappearing From IMSA but remains in the form of FORD GT

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by joe1973, Jul 1, 2017.

  1. joe1973

    joe1973 Karting

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    #1 joe1973, Jul 1, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    There should be a clean up of the GT class. This Ford GT is suspiciously more like a PC class design (you be the judge- look at the attached pic), GT LM getting close to speeds of PRO, Porsche moved its engines this year towards the center vs. street cars...

    If nothing is done, these races become less about Win on Sunday and Sell on Monday... Rather just bragging rights which does nothing for car afficionados as our cars are getting further and further from what's on track. With the current trend, these races might as well combine with NASCAR.
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  2. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Six Time F1 World Champ
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    welcome to the argument from June 2016 :p
     
  3. lmpdesigner

    lmpdesigner Formula 3
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    Well Fords remit to "me" was a car that would win at LeMans and be street legal
    They got what they wanted
    Take the bodywork off of that car and it looks just like anLMP roller
    Never sure why people think that is wrong
    From my perspective it is how you design a car
     
  4. lmpdesigner

    lmpdesigner Formula 3
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    Joe1973
    You should actually be the biggest supporter of the Ford GT based on your comments
    You worry the LM GTE race cars are getting farther and farther away from.a street car
    Nothing could be farther from the truth regards the Ford GT
    The road car is so close to the race car as any car made
    Actually more so than any car made
    Buy a street car and you have the race car
    There is really no diff in the two
     
  5. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    In a session of invited media by Risi Competizione at Sebring in 2013, Mr. Risi in so much
    as admitted to us that the GT F458 of the time was a prototype.

    BHW
     
  6. joe1973

    joe1973 Karting

    Nov 12, 2016
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    It's rare to debate or ponder anything truly original. Politics today echoes from the past of Rome and the Egyptians- slavery, emancipation, alienation...
    Back to cars, my sentiment came from watching IMSA via their streaming coverage. It's pretty silly to pretend equalizing "street" cars of different purposes- corvette (straight line speed), Porsche (handling), BMW (overall power) and Ferrari (you guys fill in..) etc. Maybe it's best each manufacturer use the exact same displacement engines and differentiate based on aero, handling package and robustness of drivetrain. I don't know for sure but just saying where we are with GT has no true purpose or meaning. Does anyone take a Ferrari or Porsche loss the same way for a Sport team like Baseball or Football? Ferrari is the only marque that can claim this level of support though based on my Montreal live experience when Lewis was running away the Tifosi kept partying on! Why not.
     
  7. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 Veteran

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    Spec racing will solve it all. Just look at IndyCar and Nascar. The future is soooo bright I gotta wear shades!!! :p
     
  8. joe1973

    joe1973 Karting

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    #8 joe1973, Jul 2, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    That was my point.. leads to NASCAR. Wonder if Audi or Porsche would end up in NASCAR. Sounds crazy but these brands are mass anyway. I see more Cayennes, Boxsters in my neighborhood than Toyota's. Imagine the scenario...
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  9. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

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    +1

    :)
     
  10. Ky1e

    Ky1e Formula 3

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    #10 Ky1e, Jul 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
    Agreed. And if to bring it a step further... the street car is actually FASTER than the race car. The race car had its engine horsepower severely diminished to meet BoP. Clearly around a race track, corners/braking the race car is superior but in terms of raw power the street car has more power than the GT car.

    Disclaimer-- I haven't looked up details. I am just parroting what was told to me by the guys who build the Ford GT. I was at CTMP and took delivery of our Mustang GT4 race car at last week at the IMS event and the guys who run Multimatic (the company that builds the Ford GT) pulled up to our paddock spot in a Ford GT and we were chit chatting and that is what they told me.
     
  11. normv

    normv Formula 3
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    You're right, same situation with the Corvette C7R.
     
  12. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

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    As I see it, there are 2 solutions to this perceived problem:
    1) Create a GT-R class for the Ford GT & other super low production street cars (Pagani,
    Bugatti, etc) that may wish to compete. -OR-
    2) Just establish a minimum production number just like they had in the sixties, but with a
    production number that's about 2,000 vehicles. Oh yeah, and none of this bull**** about
    the car can compete for an entire season before the first road car is sold.
     
  13. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    You are absolutely right. Most cars in GTLM, GTE, etc... have their power ridiculously restricted, not only to create some sort of equilibrium among them (hence BOP), but also to prevent the GT category to threaten or go faster than some of the protos (LMP2, LMP3) on the track !!

    I don't know how it is in the States, so I won't judge that, but here in Europe, some GTE cars without restriction and driven by Pro drivers would easily run faster than the LMP3, and some LMP2 with their Am drivers.
    The organisers don't want that! hence the juggling going on to really neuter the GTE and keep the "logical order" .

    Ford GT polemic apart, I think it's shameful to take away up to 150hp from some engines, just to keep appearances.
     
  14. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    There are 2 schools of thoughts here to design a GT car.

    - One is to design a street car at a price that can be commercialised in number, that fits in your range, thus appealing to many prospective customers, easy to produce in large quantity, and where you make some profit on the exercise. If you want to race it, you develop a vehicle from the street car.

    - One is to design a one-off racing prototype as close as you can to the rules, regardless of its cost, only intending it to be a flagship sold in limited number at loss if necessary. You race the car as intended, and trim the rest of the production for sale to selected customers, museums, importers, rich collectors, etc...

    Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette and Porsche worked on the first model.

    Ford chose a different option.
     
  15. joe1973

    joe1973 Karting

    Nov 12, 2016
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    The market has softened for high end cars, mirrored by lower audiences at races which then dries up sponsorships. Something is wrong with the equation here. Same could be said for F1 which is now trying to reinvent itself - see the London pre-race show before Silverstone? Also open paddock on Fridays. If the Fords were penalized over 150HP as mentioned above, that's a clear sign they were not in line with the class last year- they got it really that wrong??
     
  16. Devilsolsi

    Devilsolsi F1 Veteran
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    All the GT cars are running less power than the street cars. The class is limited to around 500hp. Corvette, GT, 488, etc... all make way more power in the street car. That's why the Vette (and Viper when they were racing) sounded so awful. There was no reason to run them anywhere near the redline. I don't recall the exact RPM they were shifting at, but it was pretty low.
     

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