On the fence again... | FerrariChat

On the fence again...

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by bergxu, Jun 14, 2007.

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  1. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
    1,305
    OnTheSerpentMound
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    Aaron
    Well, I'm back to where I started I think with my 400i. I decided not to sell her at the last minute and in turn prepped her for the Ault Park Concours d' Elgeance where she did take an award, however this rich running thing has got me banging my head against the wall and I'm losing patience (and time). I think perhaps I should've sold the car when I had the opportunity and maybe just keep focus on my 308 and keeping it perfect. Aside from the fact that I've barely got the time to enjoy both cars anyways. And as you know, letting a Ferrari sit isn't the best thing! So I've been considering somewhat of a radical departure and have been eyeballing Lotus Super Sevens and Beck Spyders, maybe even a 993 although I recently bought a 911SC, so that wouldn't make much sense unless I also sold the SC. Also been considering something like a newer 740iL or 740i Sport, something to whisk back and forth to the office in which *may* get slightly better gas mileage than my Range Rover or Turbo R and not require so many frequent trips to the stealership for service. Wouldn't mind a Merc W140 S600, as I owned one of those some years back and enjoyed it quite a lot except that it was rather expensive to run at times, but man what a car!

    Ohhhh, so many decisions. What to do??

    Cheers,
    Aaron
    '82 GTSi
    '83 400iA
     
  2. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    #2 aidanparte, Jun 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Keep the 400 and get a Super Seven - I have a 1982 Caterham 7 back in the UK - it is fantastic fun and cheap to run. I used mine as an everyday car for several years and found it to be quite practical if you don't mind putting shopping bags in the passenger footwell or getting wet (I drilled holes in the floor to let the water out!). The Seven is the best anti-depressant available.

    Here's my favorite photo of my Seven.

    Aidan
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  3. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    How cool is that?

    Looks like a blast.
     
  4. ed_and_tonny

    ed_and_tonny Karting

    Aug 4, 2006
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    Pawleys Island, SC
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    Ed Quillian
    Aaron, came you go back in time about a month, and recap for us EVERYTHING you did AND UNDID to get to where you are today? I'm really confused over the going from overly rich with smoke and raw gas out the exhaust, to running fine after putting gas in the car, to running lean (the clean plugs issue), to what I think you indicated is a back to running rich but without the smoke???
     
  5. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    +1

    Come on my friend, don't give up. We know you're frustrated.
    Surely we can fix this thing.
     
  6. James in Denver

    James in Denver Formula 3

    May 23, 2006
    2,136
    Centennial Colorado
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    James in Denver
    I've always had an eye for those Beck 550 Spyders, can't see paying that much for a fiberglass bug kit-car (ok, so its not really a bug kit car, but still......) , but you can make those things look nice and power to weight ratio is nuts!!! 150 HP souped up engines (or more?) and the thing weights 1300 lbs.

    They have all sorts of options and aftermarket pieces so that you can get the things so close to "Lil'Bastard" as possible (James Deans car).

    Money-to-burn=Beck spyder for me, otherwise, I'd never buy one.

    PS There have been 2 that have gone up for sale here in Denver in the past 2-3 months, but I don't see them on the streets.

    James in Denver
     
  7. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
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    Dec 31, 2005
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    lexington ky usa
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    mitchell barnes
    with sooo many options, you sound just a little like our esteemed (steamed) pres. b. is evans aut out of ?, they are not far 100 miles (columbus) and just finished one of my 400's.
     
  8. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
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    Aaron
    Ok, a recap:

    Car was originally running poorly, black smoke from exhaust, misfiring, etc..etc...Changed injectors, cap, rotor, plugs and wires, then car ran WORSE because I mixed up the wire connections on the distributor cap, which I thought was what was causing the left bank not to fire (which it was). So once I got the wiring sorted, the car now will run smoothly, BUT the left bank, even though it is getting spark and is (as far as I can tell) timed correctly, doesn't seem to be igniting the fuel, as there is still a gas drip from the forward most joint connection of the exhaust system when the car is idling. When I pulled the plugs on the left side, they were all spotlessly clean, like they weren't even firing, but when I would yank a plug wire on that side, there was a nice, healthy spark present. So I'm confused here, and yes, Evans or NJB would be an option but I like to figure these things out on my own because it's not rocket science (is it?). There HAS to be something I'm completely overlooking, but I've seemingly covered all the bases, have the shop manual at hand and have read and re-read over and over. The only thing I'm left with is that possibly the cams jumped time on that side, so that's my last attempt before I either turn it over to NJB or Evans or just sell it and keep my efforts focused on my 308 (which I might add, is a peach!).

    Just getting frustrated here....

    Cheers,
    Aaron
    '82 GTSi
    '83 400iA
     
  9. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie
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    Jun 6, 2004
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    Dude, your killing me.

    You have it backwards.

    The cylinder by cylinder firing order for a 400i is 1-7-5-11-3-9-6-12-2-8-4-10.

    Due to the ping-pong operation of the distributor, the wires are fit to the cap in this order: 1-12-5-8-3-10-6-7-2-11-4-9. (clockwise from 1)

    If you reverse the wires it will screwup the left bank but the right bank will be fine.
     
  10. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Aaron, I'm not posative, but pretty sure.....
    If you really did jump time (which I don't believe you did) unless you jumped bigtime it would run. Crappy, but it would fire on the left.

    We know you're tired of doing this but PLEASE just humor me...... One more time please go check your plug wires on the left side. You've got good spark but no ignition, something is wrong there.
     
  11. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
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    Mark,

    That's exactly how I had it wired the first time and the car ran worse. See this post http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=151334 But I see what you're saying, in that the distributor will "convert" either wiring setup. I'll try once more, to connect the wires back in the positions you suggest and we'll see what happens. Update to come.
     
  12. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Nov 11, 2003
    9,021
    Central NJ
    By the way, if you are considering a lotus 7 derivative, have you considered an Ariel Atom, I believe they are now being made in the US as well as England.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  13. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

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    Have seen the Atom, but I prefer the looks of the Seven a little more.
     
  14. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
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    Ken Battle
    I am glad to read that other 365/400/412 lovers also get a kick out of smaller, adrenalin rushes. My son told me that before I replaced my 10 rear old TRX tires on my 400, I should have given him the car to burn the rubber to the cord. Well that is not why I bought a 400. It is a GT car in all the best meaning of that term.

    For my adrenalin rush my '69 Elan +2 with a 190 HP Cosworth BDR does just fine! My first race car was a full-race Lotus Super 7 that I ran SCCA Nationals and this +2 is a lot faster, but not as quick. In between my Europa TC was a great handling car but not enough power for a real rush.

    Good to hear others have similar cars.
    Ken
     
  15. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie
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    Aaron
    When you had the cap off, did you notice if the center button moved freely?
    Sometimes as they age, the center button on the Marelli caps will walk up a bit and stick. This will make for a really weak spark and if one bank is mixed rich you'll get wet plugs. At that point your best option is to remove them and heat them gently with a torch to burn off the gas that is soaked into the insulator.
     
  16. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie
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    Oh, and replace the cap.
     
  17. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
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    Mark,

    Cap and rotor both brand new from Maranello Concessionaries.

    Perhaps I should fly you to Cincinnati and we can spend a weekend getting the 400 back up to snuff ;)
     
  18. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Don't joke, I've actually thought about heading your way.
     
  19. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie
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    Wow, I was going to suggest that I shoot over there for an afternoon to give you a hand.
     
  20. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie
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    Also, the first time I adjusted my CO it was at around 15%. WAY, WAY, WAY too high. Between that and my bad cap, it fouled the left bank. It would burp, spit, miss, and piss out of the left pipes. After I changed the cap, it still ran poorly. I had to remove and cook the left plugs to clean off the gas and black soot. My injectors we a little gummy which didn't help.

    Now, it runs strong.

    When running, during accelerating, did it have a low American muscle car kind of sound or was it more of a higher tone airplane/Ferrari sound?

    When I first started, mine was a low muscle car sound that was loud in the exhaust. Now it has a more musical sort of sound and much higher and slightly quieter exhaust note.
     
  21. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
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    Well, in all seriousness Mark, where are you located?

    Dave, more's a party! But Texas ain't exactly around the corner ;)

    Although it's not a bad drive, we did Cinci to Dallas in about 13 hours this past March. The only crummy part of that trip is Arkansas.
     
  22. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie
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    I'm located (read trapped) in New Jersey. Around 10 hours by car, two by air.
     
  23. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

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    So would you fly out of Newark?
     
  24. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie
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    Its the easiest airport from where I'm located.

    Do you use the 400 daily?
     
  25. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Dallas to Houston adds a bit more.
    Just about the same distance as Cinci to Chicago.

    Texas; a big place
     

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