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Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by msdesignltd, Sep 13, 2006.

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  1. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
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    May 3, 2006
    10,151
    took another look sunday. black boxer next to a red 308. read my post, the similarity is all over the car. the front fenders are near identical. the belt line is identical. they are easily distiguished by a boxer owner, but they are clearly the same design and i think the average person would consider them to be. a tr, same engine, same mid layout, same color, still looks strikingly different for example.
     
  2. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    Bring your 328 to the Petit LeMans this Saturday and I'll park my BB512i next to it and point out how different the two cars are...
     
  3. Steve B

    Steve B Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    521
    Naperville
    Full Name:
    Steven L. Biagini
    The "average person" will not be the person who is determining the market for these cars in the future. The Ferrari market is and will be determined by people that understand and appreciate the differences.
     
  4. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,198
    Palos Verdes
    Full Name:
    Vince V
    Boy, u woulda really liked the PV Concours yesterday. They had 6 Muiras - 1 P400, 1 S and 4 SV's! One of the SV's was an 18K mile car in original condition. About that Bobileff car, notice the price is available on request? They used to have it listed for $400K. My guess is that they were testing the market for perfect SV's. I shot all the Ferrari's and Lambo's. Maybe I'll post them somewhere tonight.
     
  5. van22

    van22 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2005
    169
    Absecon Island, New Jersey
    Full Name:
    VAN C
    its still amazing to me that people with white ferrari's try to make them sound rare, when they are more like albatroses. you sound like you should be selling on ebay to the uniformed ferrari buyer. that's why dealer's got such high deposits when you ordered them new. white's a good color for girls and corvettes.
     
  6. JAYF

    JAYF Formula 3

    May 13, 2006
    1,140
    Westchester, NY
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    Jay
    ....and then you can point out how similar they look-sometimes reality hurts.
     
  7. 90TR

    90TR Formula Junior

    Nov 23, 2005
    265
    Celebration, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill
    Albatroses??? When I was looking for my TR I looked and looked finding black and red cars and then more black and red cars and then even more black and red TR's. I have always thought if you want to be like everyone else why by an F-Car. Might as well go by a vet. I understand they also come in black and red. Since joining this board I have come to really enjoy the limited production colors on TR's: Silver, Blue, yellow.... But in the end- there is just something right about white. Especially on a TR. Talk about iconic.
     
  8. mrp_e

    mrp_e Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2003
    627
    NYC, BRK, PlmSprngs
    Full Name:
    Bill
    yes, i guessed it was in the 400k range...
    but i was wrong. $675K!!!!! sold last week.
    that's gotta be a record for a muira, no?
     
  9. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
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    May 3, 2006
    10,151
    quite aware of the differences. was arguing the similarities. of which there are many.
     
  10. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,406

    If the BB and 308/328 looked that similar the attention factor from people who don't even know what a Ferrari is would be the same for both, but having had my previous 328 and BB the same time both rossa corsa the attention factor concerning looks only is triple with the BB vs 328, my BB creates quite a crowd wherever it goes vs the 328 didn't at all and doesn't compare.

    The BBs profile front hood is razor sharp and its one piece vs fenders for the 328 are higher profile, the Bb has a very low hood front end and huge orange turn signals totally different from the 308/328. The windshield is huge on the BB double the size of the 308/328 plus its unique single wiper arm and its at a more severe rake as well, the BB is about 6" wider in the back as well which gives the car a flying carpet look since its so low and wide. The doors on the BB are small and rounded similar to a 60s formula 1 cars body, the 308/328 they are much bigger and longer, I could go on
     
  11. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
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    May 3, 2006
    10,151
    i agree with you there. still say they are very similar. i was trying to demonstrate that by using the average person. of course a boxer owner would think they are vastly different. this, unfortunetley doesn't make it so.
     
  12. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
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    May 3, 2006
    10,151

    i agree with most of what you say, but again, i was pointing out the similarities. it boggles the mind that people don't clearly see all the same design cues on the car. hello! clearly the boxer looks much more like the 308 than the tr. that's because the 308 and boxer are very similar. please don't point out any more differences. i know them and get it.
     
  13. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
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    May 3, 2006
    10,151
    it's funny, i have the opposite experience, my 328 draws a crowd anywhere i go. i don't mean to say the 328 is a "better" car than the boxer. in fact i quite like the boxer and would prefer it to the 328 and i'm sure it would create three times the crowd. i think you may be playing down the reaction to a 328 a little to make a point though.
     
  14. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
    13,474
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    The average buyer doesnt buy a boxer - too expensive to repair so they say. That sounded snobbish (typical boxer owner). I cant tell the difference between a 750 monza and a 500 modial with or without the hood closed. They are both pretty cars and very different to one that knows what they are looking at.
     
  15. Steve B

    Steve B Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    521
    Naperville
    Full Name:
    Steven L. Biagini
    My point is that, since this thread was about market prices, the observations of average persons who are not market participants are not relevant. The uninformed average person probably thinks a 250 GTO looks like a kit car.
     
  16. JAY GLASER

    JAY GLASER Rookie

    Jun 27, 2005
    18
    STOP BASHING BOXER'S FOR BEING EURO. THEY HAVE ENZO'S BLOOD AND YOU ARE BEGINING TO GET ME SICK!
    JAY,
    #49257 FORZA AUGUST 2006
     
  17. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,673
    NYC
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    Buzz
    Exactly.

    I have a Mondial t cab and a BBi. Both draw stares and smiles from young and old alike in the general population. Amongst the auto enthusiast crowd, however, the BBi gets respectful nods and acknowledgement of its rarity. The Mondi is treated like an F150 pickup -- which is sort of how I use it anyway.
     
  18. JTR

    JTR Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 26, 2005
    1,501
    in a house
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    John
    Just like you guys here participating in F-Chat, owning one of these cars, and knowing others that own one gives you a little different perspective. Though I can see a lot of differences between a Boxer and a 308, to the average Joe who rarely if ever sees one, much less up close and personal, I can see where there is enough similarity to confuse them.
    Just as with the average Joe, and my daughter, there is enough similarity in profile, roofline, to confuse a 360 with a Mitsubishi eclipse!
    And to tell the truth, I'd rather be confused with a 328 than a Mitsubishi!
     
  19. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
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    Franklin E. Parker
    Back when I had my 348 Spider I had a women at a gas station ask me if it was the new Mustang...
     
  20. johng

    johng Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2004
    2,284
    northern va
    Full Name:
    john g
    i don't get the whole mustang thing. these cars don't at all like mustangs. must have something to do with the horsie.
     
  21. Steve B

    Steve B Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    521
    Naperville
    Full Name:
    Steven L. Biagini
    This thread has gotten way off course with observations about what "average Joes" think about certain cars. The theme of this thread was about market value potential in certain models. The opinions of "average Joes" are completely irrelevant in this context since they are not part of the Ferrari marketplace.
     
  22. callchuck

    callchuck Karting

    Aug 29, 2005
    92
    I had to jump in this thread to show what the boxer market is doing. My 1974 365 Boxer sold last month in California for $110,000, wow! I could not get $80,000 for it in Atlanta. It was sent to an auction where it brought in the big money. The car was not original but had an interesting history attached to it.
     
  23. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,673
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Buzz
    Great data point! Can you tell us the mileage, condition, and non-original bits?
     
  24. LP400S

    LP400S Formula 3

    May 18, 2002
    1,221
    West Coast
    You are very correct!!
    IMO, Average people do not look for a Boxer, Daytona,288 etc.. So who cares what the average person thinks unless you are looking for some kind of flash factor. It's when you take your Boxer, Daytona,288 or whatever to a true car enthusiasts event that they really get appreciated. These are the people that set the market prices.
     
  25. 90TR

    90TR Formula Junior

    Nov 23, 2005
    265
    Celebration, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill
    I think the average joe factor will play a very large role in future pricing. To assume that Ferrari's will not be following the same path as the rest of the auto hobby seems a weak argument. What I and I think most of the other 'average joe' statements were contemplating was the rollover from the muscle car generation to the 80's crew. When that happens the hobby will expand and it will expand with average joes- NOT F-Car experts. For all practicality this has already started. Many of the people I have met at events have been first time F-Car buyers; average joe's just like me. I have no doubt that the the low price of TR's is driven by the # of units built and the high price of Boxers is driven by the low numbers. What I am saying is that the 7 thousand TR's are not going to seem like all that many when my generation gets into a position to buy; and the prices will go up accordingly. I would not be all that surprised if in 20 years the TR's were right up there in price. It is just a matter of supply v. demand and it tough to argue with desire for a generations icon.
     

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