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Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by msdesignltd, Sep 13, 2006.

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  1. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
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    Just say you took a million dollars 18 months ago and bought 10 246 dino's.
    Your principal would have doubled.
    So...you say what F car is next to show the greatest spread in valuation.

    TOO late for the Boxer....EH EH cats out of bag.....only time to buy is at low end of valley..I say Boxer will top out at 180 to 200 g's..........Time to scoff up a dozen late model low mileage TR's and sit tight....92' 93' 94's

    I have been playing this game for 20 years!
    I will wait till the depth of winter and then stab.....

    The tr cat is still Hibernating.....so dont let on....
     
  2. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    michael,

    you could be correct on the 512 tr. i think they are actually great cars but i am concerned that they will be still be associated with the other 9000 testarossa's and thus never be looked as exclusive enough. time will tell.

    again, the tr may very well be the best of the overall breed.
     
  3. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Hmm, I suppose I could justify 2 more 512TR :)

    1 for Connecticut & 1 for the West coast LOL
     
  4. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,406
    While the TR is a great car it does not have the special mix that makes certain collector cars appreciate in value considerably.

    The Boxer is totally handmade, hand hammered panels the last Ferrari to be built like this the same way a 250GTO was made unlike the TR which was mass produced with stamped panels.

    The Boxer is rare with low numbers compared to the TR, my engine is stamped 00274, thats only #274 of the 512BB motors made, rare again.

    The Boxer has much direct invovement with Enzo Ferrari himself made the way he wanted it to be, screw North America were his thoughts, the TR was made from the ground up for North America with compromises.

    Boxers have a pure line one of the most stunning Ferraris ever made, the opening clam shell hoods is a unique touch no other Ferrari road car has with the exception of the F40 which rear panel opens in a different way.

    I could go on, surely TRs will appreciate in 10 years or more but by that time Boxers will be $350k cars, remember Boxers approached $500k in the late 80s for nice cars they have a ways to go especially since other Ferraris are already approaching their late 80s record prices.

    I think those that have TRs should just enjoy them for what they are afun driving Ferrari, much like I enjoy my 355
     
  5. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran
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    Dear Ferraristi,


    Trueeee, but what about the 16,000 360s made?

    I drive a 91 Testarossa and was at the St. Armands show in Jan. 06. Out of alllll the cars there, I was the only Testarossa, even among the 4 other 512 TRs.

    Even I got sick of seeing row after row of 360s

    I still love a 308 though !

    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice !
     
  6. testarob

    testarob F1 Rookie

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    Actually, the production numbers on TRs are closer to 7200, not 9k.

    I am betting on the single mirror, single bolt wheel 85-86 TR for appreciation as there were only about 1300 of those made. I am curious as to how many are left as repairs are rather expensive.
     
  7. Drew Altemara

    Drew Altemara Formula 3

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    If I remember correctly, Daytonas reached $500K circa 1989 and Boxers were about half that.

    If Boxers got to be consistently above $100K, I think that would be reasonable.

    More people should have a serious look at theses cars.
     
  8. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    FYI, Ferrari made 8426 of the TR, 512TR and 512M models.
     
  9. 90TR

    90TR Formula Junior

    Nov 23, 2005
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    Let me first say I understand where people are coming from on the Boxer. But I think the “Memory-Lane” buyers; like me, will overlook this car when they move from Muscle Cars to the next generation. The Muscle Car surge has shown us one thing- people buy the icon cars of their day and not necessarily the ‘best’ cars. When fate allowed me to jump in the F-Car family earlier than my friends, I never even considered the Boxer because I had no memory of it. To this day the lines of this car seem raw to me, almost like it is the predecessor to the Magnum PI car. I ask when you read this to keep in mind that most people would probably look at a 308, 328 and Boxer and associate those models with that TV show. Just as most of the Muscle Car buyers could not tell a truly limited production Muscle Car from the “one” everyone is talking about. When those in my generation get to the point of being able to buy their “memory” the two most popular cars will be the TR and the Countach. In ten years, we will probably have 5000 or less TR’s in the US. Not many more than Hemi Mopars still kicking around- and look what the “memory lane” buyers did to those prices.
     
  10. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    I agree. As most, even car collectors of the future may not know what a Ferrari Boxer is. Plus, all Boxers are gray market examples here in the States, as none were ever imported officially. Which may be a plus or can be a minus to a car collector, depending on his/her POV.

    IMO, the 512tr and the 512M are somewhat over hyped. I guess it makes their owners feel better and perhaps easier to justify their ownership. Granted that they are faster and more powerful cars, as they rightfully should be as they are newer, but that does not make them better Ferraris. They have their own cons when compared to the original Testarossas.
     
  11. notoboy

    notoboy F1 Rookie

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    I must say though, going against the TRs are their seriously high maintenance.

    I agree though that TRs and Countachs will go up over time, bc if nothing else, they were the cars people dreamed of as children.

    At this point, they are yesterday's cars that don't perform as well as the new models, but in 10-20 years, they will transform into the best cars of the 80s and people's childhoods, and by that time their numbers will have been drastically reduced due to parting out and collisions, since current engine out repairs, and fairly minor bodywork oftentimes cost as much as the cars are worth.

    I don't think, however, that the cars will reach astronomical price levels, but who knows...
     
  12. AHudson

    AHudson F1 Rookie
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    The "memory lane" concept was well-stated 90TR. Interesting to hear from some of our somewhat younger and astute buyers/fans.

    I'm in the group that thinks Boxers are THE "turn on" car. The photos hit me between the eyes as a 16 year old in 1974. Continued into my college years. I was the admitted self-professed turncoat from my Muscle Car lover friends who - to me - didn't "get" foreign cars. (I'm in Alabama, so that was part of it too.) Investment-wise, maybe I didn't (and still don't) 'get' Muscle Cars.

    Nonetheless, the Muscle Car crowd has poured high-test on a raging fire of "gotta have it" monied buyers. A far cry from their clapped-out status of jsut a decade back, when a run-of-the-mill 'Cuda 340 was still a $5grand car and Hemis were in the $40s'. Wow.

    I think part of their appeal to this "memory" buyer is the ability to get in, turn they key in relative confidence that if something breaks, have at it. A $40 water pump holds tremendous attraction.

    Somewhere in there, I missed the TR lust. Though - and honestly in large part due to this board - I'm growing more fond of the 512TR daily. Dumb as this sounds, our lake house driveway is steep enough to preclude ownership. (I already know your reaction: "Sell the stupid house in favor of a TR friendly driveway!") My 996tt and Pantera have no problem in case you care.

    As for opinions and speculations, I tend to feel the TR will lag or be flat for a few more years. I also agree with 90TR that the "memory" of his age will pull like a V12 on the cam when the time comes. (A man in his 40-somethings who's memory justifies a much-delayed affair wtih TR.) So, probably soon enough.

    Great post 90TR.
     
  13. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    IMO, this is overblown. Most of the people that are experiencing these maintenance difficulties are the ones that purchased a poorly cared for Testarossa as their previous owners either 1) Treated it as a garage queen or 2) Too cheap to maintain them properly. I am not saying a major service on a Testarossa is not expensive, it is what it is. Just not as bad as so many other people seems to think.

    There are plenty of cars out there that uses belts and that needs rountine major services. Not sure which one but I was informed that one of the newer Acura models (RL or the TL) also require an engine out service in order to get to the belts (Acura-fans/owners, please confirm if this is true.) While the cost is not as high as the Testarossa, but it is still fairly expensive and afterall, the Testarossa does have at least twice as many cylinders and just that little more exotic in the automotive patheon.

    IIRC, not sure about the 911 series or today's 997 series, but doesn't the Porsche Boxsters also require the engine to be dropped from the bottom in order to service them? This concept isn't that new nor that old. I have spoken to many that rather prefer to have them come out from the bottom than from the top as they are usually very concerned about dropping the engine by accident and damaging the car or worse.
     
  14. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
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  15. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    There really is little doubt that testarossas will go up in value, for a variety of reasons:

    1) Nature abhors a vacuum. If Boxers cross 250,000$, testarossas will be seen as a bargain, and the price will rise. Look at it any way you want, but it was a Ferrari Flagship, and its a 12 cylinder.

    Keep in mind, this was an incredibly popular car during its time. And if it was popular then, it will be popular again.

    2) As stated, folks want to go down memory lane. I hate to admit this, but time is flying by way to fast. I still can't believe that I graduated highschool 20 years ago. It seems like yesterday. And there were 3 cars that I drooled over: testarossa, countach, 911 turbo. 2 down, 1 to go :).

    The boxer is an aquired taste. I had zero interest in them when shopping for my testarossa. After reading about it on this site, I now want one. But it was never my dream car. The testarossa was on my bedroom wall, as was the countach. These cars were on every magazine cover throughout my puberty. My brain is etched...

    3) Inflation...

    Did anyone want a 1960's camaro in the 1980's? Not really. Only the gearheads reading HotRod magazine. Sure the serious collectors will want the special edition whatever, but the regular edition cars skyrocketed also.

    I can see my car crossing the Barret-Jackson stand in 5-10 years:

    "Yes siree folks. Its a 2 owner white and red testarossa. Just like on Miami Vice! Extremely rare ( :) ) color combination, low miles. a 2+ car.

    Why, it was only 7 years ago you could have picked one of these up for 60,000$ Don't you wish you had done that. The market is now starting to appreciate these supercar, and they still get looks! 180+ mph motoring, to fulfill your child hood drerams!

    And lets start the bidding at 200,000$!"

    Ah, happy thoughts

    And if someone doesn't like the color, whats a 10,000$ paint job on a 250,000$ car? ;)
     
  16. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    I hope so too...but, the problem with the TR series is they just made too many of them...the highest production Ferrari ever until the 360 series...along with the fact that the cheese grater vents are not seen as favorable as they once were...
     
  17. JAYF

    JAYF Formula 3

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    I hate to burst your bubble but comparing a boxer to a GTO in any way is insanity. The GTO body is a one off design. The boxer body looks like a 308. Not to say this is bad but, the TR blows it away in styling and originality, even if you dont like it, you have to give it credit for being radically different from any other car. Just for the record , I happen to like the boxer alot. You are certainly entitled to your opinion as well as myself, however putting down the TR is not a wise move. The TR is an 80's icon and will always be remembered as that, as well as being the "perfected " boxer.
     
  18. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Boxer price upswing...
    Perhaps the Testarossa market will come to Mr Jerry J. Moore one day then. He purchased and held more than 35 new Ferrari Testarossa models along with half a dozen F40 USA models. Also several 365 GTS/4 Daytona models including a very nice silver example. Which would you buy; perfect restored car or 'garage queen' original car?
    horse fan
     
  19. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Were tail fins looked upon favorably in the 1980's?

    Shaker hoods?

    Dodge Daytona Roadrunner Tails?

    Vinyl seats and dashes?

    8 cylinder pushrod motors?

    Large painted hawks/eagles on hoods?

    Redline wheels/tires?

    Hemi's, for that matter?

    Yet, 10 years later, everyone wants them...



    Side Strakes, like other styling cues, are "cool" 20-30 years later. What would a 50's chevy be without tailfins?
     
  20. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    Really? There are less 348/355 (Coupes, Targas, Spyders & CS combined) series out there than the Testarossa/512tr/512M series? Interesting.
     
  21. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Lets assume there are 9000 TR's out there.

    There were 5 million plus Camaro's, dodge chargers, etc.

    The muscle car folks will argue that only a couple thousand camaro's came with the special muffler, bright red cigarrete lighter, and pink hubcaps. Or whatever. So?

    The fact is all muscle cars skyrocketed in value. Folks reach a point where they have to justify buying one car over another, so they nitpick. They only made a thousand of "xxx." So what, you can go to your local catalog store and bolt "xxx" on right now, and have the same car. Folks make distinctions where there really aren't any. Sure, a Shelby is unique. But some folks judge prices on much less meaningful criteria.

    We can do the same thing with the testarossa's.

    There were only x amount with the high mirror, lug nut. Ca ching$$$.
    There were only x amount with the low mirrors, and single lug. Ca ching$$$
    There were only so many 512's...ca ching$$$
    Gee, everyone has a red one. There were only 500 white ones made. Ca ching$$$

    Seriously, why not.

    As a side note, I don't see the attraction of the late TR's, 512M, etc. Is it just me? I never really wanted one. Didn't like the twist wheels either, nor the covered headlights.

    To me, the coolest testarossa's are the single lugs. It makes them unique. I wish my car had the single high mirror, that also was a huge design cue.

    Just because a car was the last in the line, doesn't mean it will be the most valuable...
     
  22. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    that is a good/funny post!

    you mean "the very rare light weight am/fm radio with the factory fm delete"!

    very rare...only 12 ever made...lol
     
  23. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran
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    Actually, I thought that most prolific Ferrari model was the F360 and they are still getting over-MSRP pricing! Thank the F430 pricing for that. TR's are still the best value for the money out there. It's a 12-cylinder Ferrari ferchristsakes! At some point those early single-mirror, single lug TR's are going to get really popular among collectors, but it will likely be the more sophisticated and experienced ferraristi who get on this train first. Same for the Boxers. Luckily there aren't many of those around. The rest of us steer clear of early model anythings and prefer the last and more refined of the model run. No guts, no glory they say. :)
     
  24. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    I was watching some autoshow a week ago, and they were commenting on their "Car of the Week." It was some muscle car, run of the mill, but with a very low end inline 6 motor. They mentioned it was valuable because "no one" ever ordered that particular low output 6 cylinder with a stickshift. Hence, it was collectible and a cool car...

    Yeah, right...
     
  25. JAYF

    JAYF Formula 3

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    FYI for the 9 year run on the TR there was a waiting list for all nine years-thats prolific!
     

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