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New evidence in Stepneygate

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by tifosi12, Sep 6, 2007.

  1. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    At the risk of doing a repost, here something I just read:

    At the new review of the case by the FIA on September 13 new evidence will be presented.

    I always thought it is just a 2nd review of the same data, but according to Blick new facts have surfaced. The article doesn't explain what those are:

    http://www.blick.ch/sport/formel1/neue-beweise-in-spionage-affaere-70816

    So there is a good chance that McLaren will finally get hit with a real penalty. Fingers crossed. :)

    PS: I'd prefer Ferrari winning the title on the track, but no penalties for McLaren after what they have done doesn't sound right either. BusinessF1 explained that actually 4 people at McLaren have at least briefly seen the documents. So the claim only Coughlan was involved is definitely false.
     
  2. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

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  3. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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  4. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

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    If the car turns out to be illegal that would be sufficient grounds to strip the drivers of their point as well. Just imagine cutting 10 points of of Lewis lead and adding two to Kimi´s point total...
     
  5. Formula 1

    Formula 1 Formula 3

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    http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/09/06/sports/EU-SPT-CAR-F1-FIA-Spy-Case.php

    ROME: A former Ferrari mechanic has acknowledged he met with McLaren's chief designer to discuss the Italian Formula One team's technical data but "only to exchange an opinion with a person I respect," an Italian newspaper reported Thursday.

    The admission by Nigel Stepney was sent in a letter to F1's governing body and could be the "new evidence" that the FIA cited Wednesday in reconvening a new hearing into the spy scandal, La Repubblica reported.

    The hearing in Paris is set for Sept. 13 and could result in sanctions against McLaren. FIA could dock points from McLaren or even kick the team out of the championship.

    The dispute ignited when a 780-page technical dossier on Ferrari cars was found at the home of McLaren designer Mike Coughlan, who was later suspended. Stepney, who allegedly supplied the documents in April, was fired.

    In his letter, Stepney said he discussed a new addition to the underside of Ferrari's F2007 car with Coughlan because he wanted "to evaluate McLaren's reaction."

    The newspaper said Stepney's letter to the FIA cites a meeting with Coughlan in Spain earlier this year, but reiterates his claim that he is the victim of a setup.

    "I met Coughlan in Barcelona, but I didn't give him the designs of the F2007; they were stolen from me within Ferrari," Stepney wrote, according to Repubblica.

    Stepney also identified and named six members of a group "inside and outside Ferrari" that wanted to leave the team, the newspaper reported.

    Ferrari has opened a criminal case against Stepney in a Modena court for allegedly placing a mysterious white powder on the gas tanks of the team's cars before the Monaco Grand Prix, in a supposed sabotage attempt.
     
  6. cantsleepnk

    cantsleepnk Formula Junior

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    From reading a lot of stuff on the internet here's what i've gathered.
    The new evidence recieved by the FIA is an admission by Nigel Stepney confessing to the FIA that he discussed Ferrari's flex floor with Coughlin.
    Apparently Stepney discussed the floor with Coughlan in order to gauge McLaren's reaction, while denying sending any blueprints of the Ferrari car to McLaren. Stepney names six other people who are involved.
    It seems that a non-Ferrari rival of McLaren (Renault maybe)is the source of the new evidence.

    Edit: Formula 1 You beat me to it. Your fingers are faster than mine.
     
  7. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Here is Briatore's agenda: If McLaren is found guilty and penalized, Alonso can get out of his McLaren contract easy: His contract has a get out clause that allows him to leave the team if the team has come into a bad reputation. This way Renault can hire Alonso without having to pay the $ 40 milllion buy out money.
     
  8. cantsleepnk

    cantsleepnk Formula Junior

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    And they move up one spot in the championship thus getting more money.
     
  9. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

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    How stupid must you be to discuss any technical aspect of your car with a member of a competing team?
     
  10. Prova85

    Prova85 Formula 3

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    Between this, the new gearbox issue and driver discontent the wheels are really falling off McL in a hurry this year. It will be interesting to see if all this effects them in Monza.
     
  11. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

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    What happened with Stepney and Coughlan is rephrensible, I believe McLaren should be docked WCC points. I don't think the Drivers should be affected as they had nothing to do with this. However, I think in the long term McLaren will come out of this ok. I still don't believe that the higher ups at McLaren would have ever condoned this action by that jerk Coughlan, Ron Dennis's personality might not be everyones cup of tea, but he is probably the best manager in F1.
     
  12. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    Has the best manager in Formula One fired that jerk Coughlan yet?

    I think Parcells did a better job managing Terrell Owens than he has done with his two drivers and technical advisors so far this season.
     
  13. cantsleepnk

    cantsleepnk Formula Junior

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    Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but Coughlin was just suspended not fired.
     
  14. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran
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    this entire chain of MMl and F is sick.


    but the racing is still fun......
     
  15. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    It would seem that the above statement *may* not be true....

    "Until the end of last week there was no sign of any new evidence, but it seems that the FIA may have received a tip-off from somewhere alleging that other evidence existed and where it could be found. We hear that the F1 teams have all received a fax in recent days from the FIA pointing out that it is their duty to report any information they may have with regard to information relating to the case, told to them by any of the drivers. This seems oddly specific and suggests that drivers are now involved in this affair."

    [Source: http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19576.html]

    The 13th should be fun!

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  16. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    BusinessF1 mentions, that Coughlan showed the document to 3 other McLaren managers and allegedly they didn't want anything to do with it. That's the good news. The bad news is, that nobody at McLaren stopped the buck right there. No action was taken to get rid of the document, to get rid of Coughlan and to come clean towards Ferrari. While I can understand that they weren't eager to self incriminate, Dennis simply lied to the world by saying nobody had any knowledge of this and that McLaren didn't profit from it (point in case, Stepney's tip off about the moving Ferrari undertray).

    McLaren isn't stupid enough to make Ferrari replica parts nor would that be helpful on their very different car. But they certainly gained helpful information and overall conceptual ideas from this document. Those things have/will have a positive influence on the McLaren car and nobody will ever be able to proove their provenance.

    If this case had only be about one rogue employee doing his thing in secrecy, I could let McLaren off the hook. But they knew that he had this stuff and didn't act against it.

    I'm no fan of winning the title at the green table, but in the end if the McLaren car got any better based on this (or the Ferrari worse by not using the moving underbody anymore) then the only penalty that does matter is to dock drivers' points.

    Monetary fines and WCC points docked are slaps on the wrist. WDC points is what F1 is all about. Take those away and you see grown man Dennis crying.
     
  17. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

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    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sport/formel_1/hxcms_article_506694_13987.hbs

    Quick sum up: Alonso, Hamilton and de la Rosa (test driver) were guarenteed exemption from punishment if they spoke to the FIA about the espionage affair. Now it seems that de la Rosa got information about the Ferrari setup from Coughlan and emailed it to Alonso from the beginning of the season on. This is the reason why FIA has scheduled the new meeting.

    I wonder now what the exemption from punishment will mean - I hope that it will NOT mean "drivers keep their points, no matter what happens"...
     
  18. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Holy makro! This changes everything!
     
  19. ferraridude615

    ferraridude615 F1 Veteran

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    I would agree with not docking Hamilton and Alonso, except that they benefited from the extra knowledge that their team had. Kinda like driving a "stolen" car, you might not know it's stolen, but you are still at fault.
     
  20. ferraridude615

    ferraridude615 F1 Veteran

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    +a bajillion, OMG THEY ARE CHEATERS, THIS $**T JUST GOT REAL,
     
  21. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    +1

    Note: PhilNotHill does not condone or encourage any illegal behavior. See "New Fchat Policy" in the Not Model specific discussion section. Nor does PNH condone or encourage cheating in Formula 1. ;)
     
  22. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Before we get all too excited, the article states that Alonso and Hamilton have been given a Pardon from the FIA for their statements. So even if McLaren is found guilty, to me that means the drivers will keep their points.

    The flip side is, that McLaren now really might be thrown out of the championship in 2008.
     
  23. lucky_13_2002

    lucky_13_2002 F1 Rookie

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    I guess now we know that Alonshole was right about giving McCheater team half a second a lap since he got in the team. ;)
     
  24. ferraridude615

    ferraridude615 F1 Veteran

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    Translated by Google

    The espionage affair between McLaren and Ferrari goes on next Thursday into its crucial round. The world union FIA called for 13 September the set appointment procedure off and summoned for it the world advice together again. Reason for the program modification are new proofs, which the FIA was passed on week obviously passed. In the driver camp of Monza rumors consolidated themselves that the drivers are complicated into the case. Therefore Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton and Testfahrer Pedro are to have gotten de la pink(rosa) ones gotten by the FIA post office. They were requested to take to the new proofs position. Them exemption from punishment assured if it cooperatively to be it shown.

    Alonso and de la pink(rosa) ones expressed themselves beginning of this week then to the case. Their statements have the FIA thereupon arranges to order again the world advice. According to rumors it concerns the exchange of enamels between Pedro de la pink(rosa) ones and Fernando Alonso. In this Mails de la pink(rosa) ones are to have set for its Spanish colleague over tuning secrets of Ferrari in knowledge. De la pink(rosa) ones received these information from chief designer Mike Coughlan, in whose house 780 pages the strong secret dossier was found, which comes according to Ferrari data from their former workshop boss Nigel Stepney. De la pink(rosa) ones and Coughlan know each other well. The two co-operated already 1999 and 2000 with Arrows.

    The E-Mail exchange between de la pink(rosa) ones and Alonso is to have taken place already briefly after beginning of season, clearly the time ago thus, at the Coughlan the documents of Stepney got. It confirms again the suspicion that Coughlan knew already early details about the Ferrari. Whether the fact that Alonso theoretically tuning-cheat of Ferrari for own purposes have used could, is sufficient, to exclude McLaren from the world championship stands on another sheet. It makes the defense strategy of team head Ron Dennis anyhow not simpler, because it is clear now that more knew more people obviously nevertheless than it to admit to want. The FIA did not want a comment on request to the current procedure

    Because of the strained tendency between Alonso and its team, in the scene it is speculated whether Alonso wanted to blacken its running universe intentionally, in order to come prematurely from the contract. After all realizations is however not the case. Alonso had no chance to refuse the statement. The FIA could have theoretically closed it then. Before a civil court it looks however differently. Alonso could not accuse McLaren then any longer that its image was damaged, because it made itself guilty as Mitwisser. The Alonso prospective customers Renault and Toyota possibly rub to early the hands.
     
  25. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    It's cute how Google translates De La Rosa's name. :)

    In short the article states that from the beginning of the season Alonso and De La Rosa got Ferrari setup information. It also states that the email trail shows, that Coughlan had Ferrari knowledge long before the alleged 750 page document traded hands. It also states that not just Coughlan had knowledge of Ferrari secrets at McLaren.
     

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