Here's a fact for you: Massa's manager is Todt's son. You don't think that might have something to do with Massa having the ride, do you...? Ferrari didn't want Kimi and Massa, Ferrari wanted Kimi and Schumacher. I don't have all the facts, but then again I don't have my head stuck in the sand, either...
You have not been right about anything. That should be specific enough answer as to my comment about your accuracy. And I do not believe your comment at all about your inbox mail. If anyone cares to defend your comments with facts, please let them. As you say, I would rather learn from divergent opinions. I am eager to hear your facts. So far, you have only offered statement, no supporting fact (I am going to assume that the statistics about the Marlboro McLaren team are accurate, but that missed my point). Supporting facts, you know, like the footnotes they made us do in debate class? Seems to me if the Prost/Senna partnership worked, we would have seen many more such pairings. We haven't, because those two had a tremendous dislike for each other, and the team morale suffered. Pretty obvious to other team managers. If it were that successful, that partnership would have continued, but fatefully Senna went to Williams instead of staying as he hated the situation and Prost. Nice "team" spirit. I do think team spirit is important on a race team, don't you? Questions for you, please be specific with your source: Why haven't we seen such super teams since? Why did drivers like Mansell, Lauda, Senna, etc., refuse to have an equal as a teammate? Did you read the interview with Ferrari's chief engineer, Luca Baldisserri, and do you think he was lying about Schumacher? How do you know Schumacher was forced by Ferrari to retire? Source? If Schumacher had such failings you mention, who in your opinion made a better champion, and why? Who is Alonso's manager, and which team does he manage? Which team is Alonso going to in 2007? Are you suggesting that the only reason that Massa had his contract renewed at Ferrari is because Todt's son is Massa's manager? Who at Ferrari is involved with driver selection? Are you suggesting that Jean Todt places more emphasis on who his son manages, then on winning the Constructors Championship? Did all those at Ferrari involved in driver approval collude to keep Massa on the team just because of Todt's son? Luca Montezemelo was OK with that reasoning? How do you know that Ferrari wanted Schumacher and Raikkonen together, who are your sources? How do you know that Michael did not want to team with Kimi in 2007? Sources? How do you know that Scuderia Ferrari did not feel like they had an obligation to Massa? How do you know that Raikkonen's contract did not specify his control over the #2 driver? How do you know that Kimi's contract did not have a provision that he did not want to team with Schumacher? A question from before that you avoided, when Ferrari knew they had a contract with Raikkonen, and if Massa is as bad as you say, why didn't they go out and buy one of the better drivers that you mentioned some time ago? If Massa is as bad as you say, why didn't Ferrari just offer him a one year extension? How do team orders work in F1? So if you don't have all the facts to answer the above questions, who really has their head in the sand? Last question, why do you keep using that word, sycophant (flatterer, slave, etc)? I am very interested in your answers. As long as you have an accurate source for developing your statements. Please answer them in the order as asked. I am guessing you will come back with your generalities, spit out some insults, but avoid answering the questions. You condemn those that disagree with you about Schumacher by calling them sycophants, obviously in a manner intending to be degrading. So what happened to your professed desire of wanting divergent opinions? This is how you handle opinions that are opposite yours? A few others have voiced similar opinions to yours about Schumacher, but they stated what was obviously their own opinion. They did not throw out statements as if they were gospel. They did not make absolute statements, the truth of those subjects are probably only known by a handful of people in the world (and you are likely not one of them-unless your name is Luca Montezemelo). You have a right to your opinion, but do not try to make it appear like it is anything more than your opinion, because you really do not have all the facts. Oh, and I plan to have my first drink of the day right after I click "submit" to this post. Pomagranite juice and Grey Goose. P.S. Just had another good idea for you. In addtion to watching NASCAR (no team orders), why don't you start your own Michael Schumacher Sucks thread, and that way all of those folks that were so afraid to publically enter their comments on this thread can join you in bashing the seven, maybe eight, time world champion. I promise, I will stay off of that thread. :}
With much respect for Schumacher (and tifosiron), I still have more respect for Mika as a world champion than Michael. Mika was a true gentleman. He never punted anyone off the circuit, or chopped anyone's nose off at the start of a Grand Prix. The "win at all costs" mentality just doesn't do it for me. That being said, I think that Michael has done more for F1 than any other person in the history of the sport. I think he deserves to retire and go relax and enjoy life with his wife and children and all that money and that mega house he's building. I guarantee you that's what I'd do!
I don't get no respect. Last night when I came home, I asked my wife is she was coming downstairs. She answered no, that she was coming upstairs. No respect.
Seems like the weakness in the property development industry has left someone with far too much time on their hands. Unfortunately for you, the hedge fund industry is quite healthy. Cut your list down to the relevant questions and I will be happy to answer. And while you're at it, brush up on your F1 history. You are woefully ignorant, it appears. I don't have time to play secretary to some idiot sycophant. (yes, go look up the word. I will bet you see your picture next to it).
You just sent twk63 back to 1963! I don't think he has the skills to comprehend what you have done to him!
i totally disagree. where did u get this black and white information that he doesn't want to drive with kimi on equal terms? he stated that if he had continue with the scuderia, the biggest loser would have been massa. massa will be relegated to the test role, and thats a no brainer. schumi has nothing more left to prove. he's on the brink of retiring. he's had success that most drivers can only dream of. he's got a young family and young kids. they have a lot more ahead of them. taking all this into account, there's practically no point schumi continuing. yes, i agree with u that he might get beaten by kimi, or will get beaten. but why? because he has nothing left to prove, and because kimi is one young, hungry, got-everything-to-prove-Finn. kimi is extremely desperate to win the DC after narrowly missing out in '03 and '05. under this circumstances, it will only be logic that he push the car over its limit and take things to the next level. michael, on the other hand, might be thinking of his kids at home, their future, etc etc while he's in the car, had he chosen to continue. whats on kimi's mind? WIN WIN WIN WIN... thats all that matters for kimi. i suspect, if schumi had continued, there'll be a dip in his form, and his motivation too. he will begin wondering why didn't he just retire in '06 and enjoy his retirement with his wife and kids. and regarding that ' fact ' that ur trying to say that MS won't drive alongside kimi, it's rubbish. because, u pointed out earlier, kimi said he don't care who he races alongside, and thats the same thing schumi said.
u know something, i really don't mind we having some nice intelligent debate from time to time. i bet everyone learns something from them. but, please, it would be really nice if u stop calling other names. calling them whatever u call them won't change anything about F1 ( if thats what ur hoping ) it'll be nice if we all can maintain calm and argue proper facts here. calling ppl names...trust me, u'll be the most hated figure here.
Answered like someone that has had their bluff called. It looks like I had you pegged correctly, you came back with generalities, spit out some insults, and totally avoided answering the questions because you have no facts, only your false arrogance. I was really hoping that you were reasonably intelligent, I am truly disappointed. Please, just answer the questions. You could not possibly look any more ridiculous than you already have accomplished. FYI, I am in commercial real estate development (as in office buildings), and that market in south Florida is booming. Someone that knows the hedge fund industry should have known that, but then what does this have to do with the discussion? The fact that you brought up my field of business is another demonstration that you are grasping at thin air. I thought this could be a good debate. Such a disappointment. :{
Wow. You want to argue F1 with me and you don't recognize those stats about McLaren off the top of your head? No wonder you keep coming up with statements like the Prostt/Senna pairing being unsuccessful. You need to read some F1 history. For example, you might want to read about Enzo's express policy of keeping is drivers at odds with each other to better focus their performance. Oh, didn't know that, did you? Well, read just about any book on Ferrari... It did and we have. Prost/Mansell, Senna/Hakkinen, Senna/Hill all the way up to Raikkanen/Montoya. In fact most of the top teams have express "No #1" policies. Williams and McLaren in particular are well known for their policy of seeking the two best available drivers, regardless of their abilities to get along with each other. Once again you are completely wrong regarding F1 history. Senna stayed on at McLaren for 4 more years and two more titles, Prost went to Ferrari. Read your history before you continue making incorrect statements. Senna left McLaren only after they lost the Honda engine and after Williams dominance became evident. His last season with Mclaren was done on a race-by-race contract. Oh yes, and he offered to drive the Williams for free and specifically told Frank Williams he would drive alongside Prost. Ooops, didn't know that, did you? All you need to do is check out Autosport for that time period. A little bit of research goes a long way. No, I don't. And neither did Enzo Ferrari. Take some time and read a biography about him. Apologize to me afterwards. As noted above we still do, most recently McLaren 2005-2006. Read Autosports reporting of McLaren's signing of Montoya and tell me that no one saw that as yet another pairing of two topline drivers. Once you read some F1 history, you will realize that all of the drivers you mention, ALL OF THEM, have driven with F1 World Champions as teammates. No, I haven't read the interview but even you should recognize that a team and environment as political as F1 and Ferrari in particular is not the environment for complete candor with the press, if you want to keep your job. Baldisserri is no likelier to come out and say that Schumacher retired rather than face real competition in the same car as you are to do even a modicum of research. The spin in F1 is worse than the spin in US politics. Even an F1 novice knows that. I never said he was forced to retire. I said completely the opposite, Ferrari wanted him to stay and offered him a contract. Wait three months and this news will be all over the F1 press. And while you are waiting, take the time to read what I said and then read a little F1 history, maybe between the two you will learn something. Once again, read my posts. I have discussed this several times. I said on several occasions that MS is one of the top 5 drivers in history but that he ranks behind Senna, Clark and Fangio. I have stated the reasons why. I am not wasting my time repeating myself simply because you can't be bothered to do a minimum amount fo research. Once again, a little research saves a lot of embrassment. Alonso is managed by IMG. What you are alluding to is the fact that he was formerly managed by Flavio, a relationship Fernando terminated prior to signing with McLaren. All of this is easily found on Autosport (hint, hint) Next stupid question... Yes. Next stupid question. I suspect Todt makes the final decision, with input from Luca, Brawn and others. MS's contract specifically gave him veto authority on his co-driver. I am saying that Todt recognizes that it really makes little difference who is in the second seat, there are plenty of drivers who can generate sufficient points in the second car to make the team competitive. All else being equal, he is going to sign his son's driver. I suggest you, once again, read the F1 press prior to Massa's signing. It was widely reortted for months that Massa would go to Ferrari PURELY because of his manager. No collusion was necessary. It would certainly appear so, would it not? Wow, you have got to be kidding me, right? Have you read any F1 press in the last two years? How about Jean Todt, for one? Read any mention of Kimi in any interview with Todt since 2005 and see what he has to say. Oh, I don't know. How about the several reports in Autosport in the last six months regarding that very point? Several staments by MS in the press, for one. F1 history is littered with stories of drivers being screwed over by their teams. Ther is no such thing as an F1 team feeling obligated towards a driver. Period. Read EVERY SINGLE INTERVIEW with Kimi. He does NOT CARE who his teammate is. He said it, Ron Dennis said it, Kimi's management said it, just about everyone connected with the sport and Kimi has said it. This is as well documented a fact as there is about Kimi. It is in every single article about him. Of course, you actually have to read the articles first... Read above. Todt. Todt's son. Haven't you been paying attention? It doesn't matter who is in the second seat. Ferrari knows that most any driver can perform in their car. Massa is a second stringer who knows his place, his manager is the boss's son, why would they not sign him? Oh yes, you don't think there are performance clauses in his contract in case he screws up, do you? Ferrari will drop him like a bad habit if they want to. Massa provides continuity and little else. his performance is adequate for Ferrari's needs and that's all they expect from a second driver, along with subservience. It doesn;t matter to them whether it is Massa, Webber or Trulli in the car, except that Webber and Trulli wouldn't be as accepting of second status as Massa is. Massa knows his career has peaked by being at Ferrari and he isn't going to rock the boat. And don't worry about that 2 year contract. I am certain that there are performance provisions written in. If Button wanted to come to Ferrari, Massa would be gone. Team orders are illegal and have been expressedly so since the Austria debacle with RB. I have neither the time nor atience to discuss team orders with someone who hasn't done the most rudimentary of research into F1 history. By your complete infamiliarity with F1 history, and general laziness towards doing the slightest bit of research, I would say that is...you. Because you are a sycophant. Usually the opinions I choose to debate are better researched than your own. Because I never said that MS sucks. your questions are scattered, unfocused, and rarely on point. your preparation weak, your understanding of F1 history superficial, and your familiarity with recent F1 journalism woefully lack.
Remy: there were several articles in Autosport within the last 3 or 4 months that discussed MS's behind-the-scenes maneuvering at Ferrari to keep them from signing Kimi. MS had been actively lobbying against Kimi and Autosport reported that, were it not for MS's obstructing, Kimi would have been signed months ago. I don't make this tuff up, despite what other people here might claim. I suspect that in a couple of months, there will be a hige expose in F1 magazine about Kimi's signing and MS's "retirement" I will, of course, expect apologies then
Kimi signed that pre-contractual agreement with Ferrari I believe about a year ago. It was never a secret that Kimi was talking to Ferrari and the rumors of him moving to the team started a long time ago... helped in no small part by Todt's own comments in interviews going back to 2005.
Man...ya'll STILL at it? Hedge fund guys survive by being contrarian I suppose....zig when others zag and all that... The troubling part to all this is "where does Schumi go?'...the proverbial 'window office' with a nice view and nothing to do, or ??????? I'd suspect some strong anti competition clauses in place, or no??? It came to me....he's only 6 short of the 'all time starts' number....so they tell him "Stay fit ....stay well" and grant some kind of 'driver emeritus' status! As the other guys suffer mishaps, hangnails, hangovers, he steps in and clinches that record too! ...and it pays $30M a year....brilliant, no? Whaddaya think? Newsworthy..never been done before......WOW! MS is better than Senna, cuz' he got some azz tonight..........Senna's widow had to write a book...I have it....SMOKiN!.... Agree, Fangio was the best.......
You'll have to, 'Unsubscribed' only gets 50, IIRC.....100 max.... Are you in NYC or Left Coast? *eyes drooping* Anyway..interesting discussion!!!!!
Roger that.... Do you know our long time chatter Mr. Glickenhaus? We broke bread in New Orleans, pre Katrina.......
This Winter when I am down at my place in Stuart, in Sailfish Point, you can come visit and tell me all about the commercial real estate market in south Florida. I will then tell you about the performance of REITs in that market these past few months... Beers on me. I suspect they will have to be.
50, I just got the warning that my box is nearly filled up. I am East coast, in Princeton NJ. I had a place on the west coast in Santa Barbara but got rid of it last year. I still keep a place in FL.
