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Monterey auction week thread

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Timmmmmmmmmmy, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    Do we think 1 - there was any real bidding at all or 2 - its all part of a future sale where it is let go for a more realistic number, perhaps $12-15 mil or 3 - there was real bidding but selling ones own car revolves around both ego and reputation and with two reasons to say no to anything less than $19 million Dana was like a rabbit in the headlights.

    It could be all three, I do recall them offering a Daytona Cobra a decade ago which failed first time out at Kissamee in '09 at a claimed high bid of around $8.5 mil. and then selling it at Monterey in August '09 for $7.26 mil. and a Porsche 962 that failed at $2 million at three auctions before finally selling at $2 million. Any other auction and you could assume it was a seller re-assessing the items value and letting it go but perhaps its marketing Mecum style to offer it at a high price and then run it again at a realistic amount making the buyer feel like they got a huge deal?
     
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  2. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Tim I believe the Cobra Daytona coupe was first offered at the Indianapolis auction in 2009.
     
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  3. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    Yes, good point
     
  4. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    From RM Sothebys

    "Record-Setting Results from Monterey 2019

    RM Sotheby’s led another Monterey Car Week with more than $107 million in total sales led by a stellar 1994 McLaren F1 “LM-Specification,” which sold for $19.8 million, setting a new record for most valuable McLaren sold at auction.

    New auction records were set across all three nights, including an evening dedicated to Aston Martin that saw the record set for the highest-selling DB5 when “The Most Famous Car in the World,” the 1965 James Bond Aston Martin DB5, crossed the block and achieved a price of over $6.3 million.

    Saturday saw Ferraris taking top billing, with classics such as the 1962 Ferrari 250 GT SWB Berlinetta and the modern 2014 Ferrari LaFerrari achieving strong prices. A 2006 Ferrari FXX, a highlight from the exceptional Ming Collection, set a new auction record for the model."

    I note that RM has managed to gross more than $1 million per car offered since 2013 (The per car sold is closer to $1.5 during that period), so 6 years of that record has ended with 186 cars sold for $107 million and with 136 cars sold it still doesn't look great.
     
  5. sperry

    sperry Karting

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    People can quibble over specifics and debate the causes, but the fact is that by every metric this was a negative weekend in the market. The major question is whether this trend will continue or whether it was a blip.

    It does seem clear there is auction oversaturation, with not enough good cars to go around. Auction houses need to put on a show, which means getting enough consignments, so they place unrealistic estimates on cars to convince sellers to give it a go. Of course, the problem in the long run is that auctions with ridiculous estimates and a bunch of no-sales are not a good show...
     
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  6. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't know how many cars were sold after auction, but I counted at least 50 "still for sale" at RMS. Naturally the auction houses are going to spin the stats to their advantage.
    If consignors truly believed the hype about their own cars there would be many more lots without reserve.:D
     
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  7. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    So, how did the 1977 and 79 308s do?

    What about Mr. G's Alfa 8C?
    There's one on Dallas they want $275K?

    The bankers want to know what the equity is, in my 30K miles 308GTB.
    Hagerty's the numbers I gave them, but that's a big range..
     
  8. TeamF1Jr

    TeamF1Jr Formula 3
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    Mr. G's Alfa hammered at $184K or $206K with premiums. One guy who saw it in the flesh said a lot of road rash. It did have 40k miles on it so you would expect that.
     
  9. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks!!
    So, a heavy deduct, for actually using the thing!!

    He's too busy to paint it....LOL!
    As mentioned earlier it was not only his daily driver, but his WINTER daily driver!!
     
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  10. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
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    I see the 196SP didn't sell at RM. Anyone know the high bid?
     
  11. TTR

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    You may try asking the auction company itself, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't reveal what the final (real) bid was or if it even had any.
     
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  12. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Is the TDF market really down to $5m? Or was that one a storied car?
     
  13. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    High bid on the Dino 196SP was $7,000,000. However, I do not know if it was a real bid.
     
  14. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    Its maybe the third or fourth to sell in the $5 - 6 mil range
     
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  15. Juan-Manuel Fantango

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  16. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Great commentary, thanks for posting!
     
  17. roma1280

    roma1280 F1 Rookie
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    According to the barchetta history it was rolled in period and spend many decades in boxes. I have always thought of the best TdFs (excluding those with A+ racing history which are worth way more) as being about the same as a good steel SWB. I’m talking my book here of course but I don't believe anything has changed in that regard.
     
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  18. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That is how I see them as well. Very surprised to read it's the 3rd one selling for 5/6m.
     
  19. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    The last series were easily the most common and they have predominantly been at the cheapest end of the scale where the earlier cars (1956-1957) would have fetched SWB money. Another group of cars are the former wrecks and non-originals, the worst of these were #0619/0805GT and #0899GT which both stalled in the $3s but they were both written off in the 1960s and restored decades later. Non matching engine cars are also demand a million $ discount over a matching #s type. The best early cars would be a $6 - 8 million prospect, later cars $5 - 6 million
     
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  20. Juan-Manuel Fantango

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  21. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't buy all that Nazi baloney. The car was over-hyped and then incompetently, disastrously presented. The whole auction atmosphere on the weekend was pretty subdued from what I gather from people who were there, and of course the results. It was a perfect storm for a no sale. This little car deserved far better. I would guess that RMS's actions cost the consignor millions. I doubt it will come to auction again for at least a generation. This is a huge black eye for RMS.

    I gather from one commenter's post in the above article that anybody who owns an artifact of any kind from pre-war Germany should just donate it to a museum where hopefully (presumably) it should rot in darkness forever.
     
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  22. SCantera

    SCantera Formula 3
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    I don’t have enough experience with these incredible cars that were driven and raced to be an expert. My only reference is my seat time driving a perfectly restored 250 GT and later being a passenger in a 250 SWB.

    The 250 GT was the same chassis and engine that was improved and spec’d to became the amazing and successful TDF.

    However the SWB is a whole different animal. Perfect balance and racing purpose in it’s design was a huge jump for Ferrari. My time in a SWB in a rain and wet track was an experience I will never forget. My friend was not a racer. But he explained how easy and comfortable it was to drive the SWB due to its perfect balance. We were 4 wheel sliding without over or understeer to take the turns and get on the power. My friend was calm and collected while sliding as he explained how easy it was to drive the SWB.

    It’s hard to explain how amazing the SWB is to experience, I know this is a thread about relative values in the market. But if I had a choice to obtain the best the SWB would be my favorite.
     
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  23. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Unfortunately its entered the new world of Political Correctness, a world that even current day Porsche wants to remain unscathed in.
     
  24. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    That so-called "Porsche" belongs to the estate of Mr. St. Sch. in Germany, a former beer king who unfortunately passed away unexpectedly in 2008, aged 47.
    Then, in the past two or three years, this car has been offered to the 25 most important car collectors and potential buyers all over the world, usually at around 9 to 11 Million US$. None was willing to buy.
    It was then somehow decided to offer it at auction in Monterey, together with a huge hype and totally inflated estimates.

    Marcel Massini
     

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